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In 1989, if you just said UFO, UAP,

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whatever in Washington,

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DC, you'd have been laughed

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out of your seat in Congress.

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Well, now you've got active Congressmen

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and women that are

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pushing policy who are literally

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diametrically opposed politically.

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But on this topic, it's bipartisan.

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There is no Republican or Democrat.

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It's like, what are we trying to do?

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And all people want to do is, this is not

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about little green men and what it is.

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If it leads to something like that,

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because we have stuff, so be it.

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To me, it's not important.

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What's important is, from our incident

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onward, is how do we

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figure out what these are?

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How do they work?

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Can we use that technology?

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Because if anything, our incident did.

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It happened 13 years after the fact when

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the New York Times

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article came out, because the

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New York Times article basically

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immediately removed the stigma.

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Coyas Institute is a pioneer in the field

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of AI-driven comparative

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and qualitative analysis

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and was established with the primary goal

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of uncovering the

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hidden value left behind

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in complex data sets.

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Through a combination of human expertise

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and cutting-edge

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technologies, Coyas has developed

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a range of services that

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cater to various industries.

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They are providing valuable insights that

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can help drive growth,

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formulate competitive

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strategy and to identify key patterns in

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targeted demographics.

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Head to their site to learn more.

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Coyas.Institute.

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That's C-O-E-U-S.Institute.

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Welcome to MURGE.

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I'm Ryan Graves.

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Today, we're joined by my friend David

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Fraver, former commanding

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officer of VFA 41, an F18

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pilot who tactically

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engaged the TIC-TAC UAP object.

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And now, David Fraver.

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So David, your background,

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you are a long time Navy guy.

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You started in the

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Marines as an enlisted guy.

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I don't want to steal your story, but

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eventually you ended up as

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a commanding officer of an

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F18 squadron.

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And before I joined the Navy, I actually

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saw the carrier video,

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or what do you want to

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call it, film that you were part of.

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So I actually, you

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know, I'd seen your face.

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I'd seen some other guys

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that were in your squadron.

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And it was interesting because I

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recognized them after I joined the Navy.

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So in some way, you know, that film, and

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you almost motivated

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me to go to the Navy.

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At one point, I was thinking about the

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Air Force, but you guys

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were just such cool dudes

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on the aircraft carrier.

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I just couldn't help myself.

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What were you thinking?

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Yeah, what was I thinking?

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You, you, you got, I mean, you really

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grabbed the Navy by the

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horns and had a pretty incredible

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career.

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One of the things that you got to do that

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I did not do is go to Top Gun.

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So maybe we can start there a little bit.

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Sure.

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And maybe you can tell me what the

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difference is between the

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training we do in the fleet

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and what training happens at Top Gun.

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So this is, this is obviously a while ago

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because I'm old, but I don't think the, I

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don't think the mentality

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of the school has changed.

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I think the way they teach

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now because of 4th and 5th gen.

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But for me, it was a, you know, when I

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first started flying, I

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thought, well, I'll just

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go, I'll be a test pilot.

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And then when I started getting in, once

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I left the A6, which is

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just a, it's an attack

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airplane and I got to go to the normal

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F-18s and I started flying.

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And luckily my neighbor

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is, had just left Top Gun.

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He was a training officer at Top Gun and

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we actually transitioned.

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So he had come out of F-14s and Top Gun

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and I'd come out of A6s

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and we were in the exact

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same class.

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So Tom and I, I'll just use first name so

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it's harder to

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identify if anyone knows, we

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all know who it is.

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Tom and I went through together and

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because he hadn't really

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dropped bombs, I hadn't really

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done any air to air.

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And for an A6 guy, air to

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air is completely dynamic.

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And I was fortunate enough

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to train with people like him.

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He took me under his wing, taught me

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literally how to fight the airplane.

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And then I had a great cast, you know,

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with Spark and Dude and

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guys like that, that kind

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of took me and didn't push me away

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because I was an A6 guy.

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And once I get into the tactical

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employment in air to air,

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I was just, I was hooked.

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So I decided I want to go to Top Gun and

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I asked and they had

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just shifted from the six

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week power projection course, which is

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like the original Top Gun

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movie where they actually

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come out of the fleet

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and they go to Top Gun.

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That's what used to happen.

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They pulled you right

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out of your squadron.

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You went, you trained for six weeks and

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you become a training

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officer and they're teaching

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you how to teach.

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And then you come back

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and you teach those tactics.

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They had just started up the SFTI program

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or SFWT, Strike

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Fighter Weapons and Tactics

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program in the Navy to

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standardize the way we did things.

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And it went from a six

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week to a 10 week course.

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And I kept asking and they had told me,

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you know, because I was

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pretty senior, I was finishing

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up a shore tour as an instructor.

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And they said, no, because we really want

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to guys go to the

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weapons school, as you know.

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And then I was fortunate enough, the

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Commodore went, do you really want to go?

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My CO had told him, you

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have to have to send him.

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And when he did it, he was there.

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He had just had brain surgery.

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He had a brain tumor.

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And when his boss walked in, he said, you

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know, you need to send Dave to Top Gun.

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So, you know, thanks to thanks to the

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captain and the captain

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that I was able to do that.

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And when you go through,

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here's what you need with Top Gun.

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One, everybody wants to be there.

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So the instructors are

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extremely professional.

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They're very standardized.

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There is no my opinion.

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This is the way we're going to teach.

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So even if there's an instructor that may

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not agree with the

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path that they're going,

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they are all in lockstep when they

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promote what the tactics

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for the United States Navy

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Fighter Committee is going to be.

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Do you hear a technique

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only very much in those briefs?

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Is that what you're saying?

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So they're really rigid to, you know, the

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new rules that they may be writing at the

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moment or are they still substituting in

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some of the hey, this

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is kind of technique?

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Well, there's areas, but they're small

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areas for technique.

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And normally that almost turns into Stan

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because you'll figure out

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the best technique becomes

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the Stan on how to do things like

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resetting the radar at the

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time that we had to do, you

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know, obviously different now with APG

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79, but for some of the

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close in acquisition modes.

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So where, so Top Gun where technique

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becomes book essentially.

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Very much.

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Yeah.

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Very much.

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And, but when you go out and fly, like

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when you're in the

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fleet and you know this, you

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know, when you, when you're flying in

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your normal squadron and

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you go out and you have

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a four ship, you know, you have the

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person in charge, the

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division lead could be, it's

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probably either a

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00:06:42,541 --> 00:06:44,166
senior lieutenant or above.

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And then you have a dash two, which is

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probably a very junior person.

236
00:06:47,625 --> 00:06:49,125
Then you have a dash three, that's just

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maybe just a section lead.

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So a mid grade lieutenant.

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And then you have

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another probably junior person.

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When you go to Top Gun, everyone in your

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flight is a full up

243
00:06:57,333 --> 00:06:59,208
division lead, probably towards

244
00:06:59,208 --> 00:07:00,916
the top of their game

245
00:07:00,916 --> 00:07:01,833
when you go through.

246
00:07:01,833 --> 00:07:03,333
So it's not like in the fleet where you

247
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go, Hey, I need you to go do this.

248
00:07:04,666 --> 00:07:06,708
And you, you target, you know, to tell

249
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three and four to go do

250
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:08,875
something, or you're tasking

251
00:07:08,875 --> 00:07:11,083
them to do something else.

252
00:07:11,083 --> 00:07:11,750
You know, it's going to

253
00:07:11,750 --> 00:07:12,541
get done in the fleet.

254
00:07:12,541 --> 00:07:13,708
You don't know, you have to, you have to

255
00:07:13,708 --> 00:07:14,666
actually have to watch and

256
00:07:14,666 --> 00:07:16,166
shepherd them because they're

257
00:07:16,166 --> 00:07:18,041
new and it's, that's the training mode,

258
00:07:18,041 --> 00:07:20,500
which is why I think the

259
00:07:20,500 --> 00:07:21,750
US is so good because we're

260
00:07:22,291 --> 00:07:23,500
not centralized where it's

261
00:07:23,500 --> 00:07:24,666
always going to be me in charge.

262
00:07:24,666 --> 00:07:27,250
We shuffle that around and, and push that

263
00:07:27,250 --> 00:07:28,750
experience because the better I can bring

264
00:07:28,750 --> 00:07:30,083
up the lower half

265
00:07:30,083 --> 00:07:31,583
closer to the upper half.

266
00:07:31,583 --> 00:07:32,291
Basically I'm raising

267
00:07:32,291 --> 00:07:34,708
the lower bar of the span.

268
00:07:34,708 --> 00:07:36,000
And that's, that's why it's so good.

269
00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,458
So Top Gun trained you to do that, but

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they also teach you the

271
00:07:40,375 --> 00:07:42,083
instructional techniques.

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00:07:42,083 --> 00:07:44,291
And when you leave there, you're up to

273
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date on everything current.

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00:07:45,416 --> 00:07:48,041
I mean, you're basically talking the

275
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message of Top Gunner, as

276
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we would call it the burning

277
00:07:49,958 --> 00:07:50,500
bush.

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And, and that, that obviously in since

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time, you know, so I

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went through Top Gun in 97.

281
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,125
So that was class four, 97, probably one

282
00:07:59,125 --> 00:07:59,916
of the greatest classes

283
00:07:59,916 --> 00:08:00,916
in history of Top Gun,

284
00:08:00,916 --> 00:08:02,208
not because of me, but

285
00:08:02,208 --> 00:08:04,166
some of the guys in it.

286
00:08:04,166 --> 00:08:08,541
But you know, now you have Havoc, which

287
00:08:08,541 --> 00:08:09,833
is the, the Prowler

288
00:08:09,833 --> 00:08:12,833
Growler weapon school.

289
00:08:12,833 --> 00:08:13,500
We used to joke it

290
00:08:13,500 --> 00:08:15,916
was top dome for the U2.

291
00:08:15,916 --> 00:08:17,583
But now you're getting that mentality.

292
00:08:17,666 --> 00:08:20,833
And I was talking to, he just left, he

293
00:08:20,833 --> 00:08:21,375
was in charge of

294
00:08:21,375 --> 00:08:22,750
Nautic, which is Naval Weapons

295
00:08:22,750 --> 00:08:24,166
Development Center in Fallon, which we

296
00:08:24,166 --> 00:08:25,000
used to call Enzoch.

297
00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:26,458
It was strikes, it's had like 10

298
00:08:26,458 --> 00:08:28,291
different names, but I was

299
00:08:28,291 --> 00:08:30,083
talking to him and you know,

300
00:08:30,083 --> 00:08:34,041
now they're starting to bring in the OSs,

301
00:08:34,041 --> 00:08:35,291
the specialists, the

302
00:08:35,291 --> 00:08:36,000
operation specialists

303
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,416
on the ship that are the controllers that

304
00:08:37,416 --> 00:08:38,875
run the radars,

305
00:08:38,875 --> 00:08:40,041
bringing them in more because

306
00:08:40,041 --> 00:08:40,791
there is controllers

307
00:08:40,791 --> 00:08:41,750
that go through Top Gun.

308
00:08:41,750 --> 00:08:43,458
But now when they do air wing, because

309
00:08:43,458 --> 00:08:44,583
this is all part of this

310
00:08:44,583 --> 00:08:46,916
giant training facility,

311
00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:48,875
and the whole air wings come in to train,

312
00:08:48,875 --> 00:08:49,666
they'll actually bring

313
00:08:49,666 --> 00:08:51,000
some of the ship controllers

314
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,125
in to run the scope.

315
00:08:52,125 --> 00:08:54,375
So now you're, you're doing air wing foul

316
00:08:54,375 --> 00:08:56,375
and strikes in the

317
00:08:56,375 --> 00:08:58,041
complex using the shipboard

318
00:08:58,041 --> 00:08:58,166
guys.

319
00:08:58,166 --> 00:09:00,625
So when you go back and you go to see

320
00:09:00,625 --> 00:09:01,750
those guys that are on the

321
00:09:01,750 --> 00:09:03,208
cruisers and the destroyers

322
00:09:03,208 --> 00:09:05,083
actually trained with you,

323
00:09:05,083 --> 00:09:06,125
because that's their key piece.

324
00:09:06,125 --> 00:09:06,750
I mean, they're the ones

325
00:09:06,750 --> 00:09:07,500
that control the airplanes.

326
00:09:07,500 --> 00:09:08,916
You get all the different players there

327
00:09:08,916 --> 00:09:09,583
in one place, you can

328
00:09:09,583 --> 00:09:10,958
have a better learning

329
00:09:10,958 --> 00:09:11,166
experience.

330
00:09:11,166 --> 00:09:13,458
It's, and I think it's a little bit

331
00:09:13,458 --> 00:09:15,083
different and no knock on

332
00:09:15,083 --> 00:09:16,041
the, you know, the surface

333
00:09:16,583 --> 00:09:18,666
communities, but I think the aviation

334
00:09:18,666 --> 00:09:19,791
community is far out in

335
00:09:19,791 --> 00:09:22,666
front of, from a training aspect.

336
00:09:22,666 --> 00:09:24,416
Like we did this, I was fortunate enough

337
00:09:24,416 --> 00:09:25,666
when I went to Japan,

338
00:09:25,666 --> 00:09:26,708
you know, I was told to go

339
00:09:26,708 --> 00:09:30,250
be a strike ops, which is the air wing

340
00:09:30,250 --> 00:09:31,083
commander's person that

341
00:09:31,083 --> 00:09:32,500
writes all the schedule and does

342
00:09:32,500 --> 00:09:33,750
all that work.

343
00:09:33,750 --> 00:09:36,208
I said no, I had to trade some orders,

344
00:09:36,208 --> 00:09:36,791
but I ended up going

345
00:09:36,791 --> 00:09:38,541
to Japan to a squadron.

346
00:09:38,541 --> 00:09:40,250
And then ironically, I ended up, the CAG

347
00:09:40,250 --> 00:09:40,916
pulled me up and I

348
00:09:40,916 --> 00:09:42,666
ended up being a strike ops.

349
00:09:42,666 --> 00:09:43,208
Funny how that works.

350
00:09:43,375 --> 00:09:45,125
They gave me no, yeah, yeah, that was my

351
00:09:45,125 --> 00:09:46,166
boss who sent me the top gun.

352
00:09:46,166 --> 00:09:47,125
He was laughing because he

353
00:09:47,125 --> 00:09:49,125
kept telling me to do that.

354
00:09:49,125 --> 00:09:51,500
The irony with it all is I was fortunate

355
00:09:51,500 --> 00:09:52,333
enough because of the

356
00:09:52,333 --> 00:09:56,041
leadership that I didn't have

357
00:09:56,041 --> 00:09:56,833
any restrictions.

358
00:09:56,833 --> 00:09:58,000
I was pretty much, I always said I was

359
00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:58,750
the most powerful

360
00:09:58,750 --> 00:10:00,250
lieutenant in the Navy because

361
00:10:00,250 --> 00:10:01,791
I controlled everything that went off and

362
00:10:01,791 --> 00:10:03,083
I control who got to

363
00:10:03,083 --> 00:10:04,083
control the intercepts

364
00:10:04,083 --> 00:10:05,833
and the training.

365
00:10:05,833 --> 00:10:08,125
And I took a cello who

366
00:10:08,125 --> 00:10:10,125
was my E2 patch wearer.

367
00:10:10,125 --> 00:10:12,000
He went through top gun as a controller.

368
00:10:12,166 --> 00:10:13,875
I sent him to the small boys and he went

369
00:10:13,875 --> 00:10:15,416
over and gave the lecture

370
00:10:15,416 --> 00:10:16,625
on combrevity and everything

371
00:10:16,625 --> 00:10:17,791
and how we do

372
00:10:17,791 --> 00:10:19,708
intercept control to the OSS.

373
00:10:19,708 --> 00:10:20,708
So they were all standardized.

374
00:10:20,708 --> 00:10:22,250
It was mandatory that they read that

375
00:10:22,250 --> 00:10:24,291
chapter out of the top gun manual.

376
00:10:24,291 --> 00:10:27,375
And we trained that way for the nine

377
00:10:27,375 --> 00:10:29,708
months that I was in that position.

378
00:10:29,708 --> 00:10:32,000
And it's amazing how good when you have a

379
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:33,500
mentality and you're going to hold people

380
00:10:33,500 --> 00:10:35,041
to it, like you will be at the debrief,

381
00:10:35,041 --> 00:10:36,000
you will write this stuff.

382
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,625
So you could come back from a flight, you

383
00:10:37,625 --> 00:10:39,291
know exactly what I'm talking about.

384
00:10:39,833 --> 00:10:43,333
The controller from whatever ship was out

385
00:10:43,333 --> 00:10:46,125
there with us, you'd come back and on our

386
00:10:46,125 --> 00:10:47,583
classified internet, which is called

387
00:10:47,583 --> 00:10:49,125
Cipronet, you would have

388
00:10:49,125 --> 00:10:50,500
like the initial picture and

389
00:10:50,500 --> 00:10:51,750
what he saw and all that.

390
00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:53,500
So when you're getting ready to debrief,

391
00:10:53,500 --> 00:10:54,666
you have what the controller's like.

392
00:10:54,666 --> 00:10:56,041
Normally you don't have that.

393
00:10:56,041 --> 00:10:57,208
You just come back and you have to

394
00:10:57,208 --> 00:10:58,208
recreate stuff on your own.

395
00:10:58,208 --> 00:11:00,750
So it was vital for us and then we could

396
00:11:00,750 --> 00:11:01,666
actually write feedback

397
00:11:01,666 --> 00:11:02,750
back to the controllers like,

398
00:11:02,750 --> 00:11:04,666
hey, make sure you get this, your com was

399
00:11:04,666 --> 00:11:05,916
off because you know

400
00:11:05,916 --> 00:11:06,333
how, you know, you say

401
00:11:06,583 --> 00:11:08,583
one wrong thing, you can suck the

402
00:11:08,583 --> 00:11:09,125
situational awareness

403
00:11:09,125 --> 00:11:10,541
out of the entire flight.

404
00:11:10,541 --> 00:11:12,750
So let me ask you, you know, as you, as

405
00:11:12,750 --> 00:11:15,083
you took these

406
00:11:15,083 --> 00:11:16,375
experiences of Top Gun and then

407
00:11:16,375 --> 00:11:19,000
became a commanding officer, you know,

408
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,166
there's all this competition

409
00:11:20,166 --> 00:11:21,875
between different squadrons

410
00:11:21,875 --> 00:11:24,416
and various performance metrics.

411
00:11:24,416 --> 00:11:25,875
How are you, were you kind of

412
00:11:25,875 --> 00:11:26,625
implementing some of what

413
00:11:26,625 --> 00:11:28,208
you learned at Top Gun to your

414
00:11:28,208 --> 00:11:29,833
squadron overall, as far as, you know,

415
00:11:29,833 --> 00:11:31,208
center of excellence, how'd you guys

416
00:11:31,208 --> 00:11:33,416
perform in relation?

417
00:11:34,750 --> 00:11:38,833
You know, I learned it in the Marines

418
00:11:38,833 --> 00:11:39,875
when I was 18 years old

419
00:11:39,875 --> 00:11:40,750
that you lead from the

420
00:11:40,750 --> 00:11:42,541
front.

421
00:11:42,541 --> 00:11:44,458
And I like to think that I did that, you

422
00:11:44,458 --> 00:11:45,583
know, people still talk

423
00:11:45,583 --> 00:11:46,375
to me, which is always a

424
00:11:46,375 --> 00:11:46,750
good point.

425
00:11:46,750 --> 00:11:47,833
You know, when you're not in command and

426
00:11:47,833 --> 00:11:48,500
people that work for you

427
00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:49,208
still talk to you, that's

428
00:11:49,208 --> 00:11:51,083
always a good sign that you didn't, you

429
00:11:51,083 --> 00:11:53,625
didn't screw it up that bad.

430
00:11:53,625 --> 00:11:55,250
No, like my friend Tom that I was talking

431
00:11:55,250 --> 00:11:57,083
about who basically

432
00:11:57,083 --> 00:11:57,750
taught me how to fight

433
00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:59,291
the airplane.

434
00:11:59,291 --> 00:12:00,708
You know, we used to joke, he had this

435
00:12:00,708 --> 00:12:00,916
speech, you know,

436
00:12:00,916 --> 00:12:02,958
it's called stop sucking.

437
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:05,625
And that's really it's really the

438
00:12:05,625 --> 00:12:07,833
standard that you set.

439
00:12:07,833 --> 00:12:10,000
The unique part, especially when I was a

440
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,125
CO is the SFWT program

441
00:12:12,125 --> 00:12:13,958
had proliferated very

442
00:12:13,958 --> 00:12:14,166
strongly.

443
00:12:14,166 --> 00:12:15,958
I mean, it was like, when it first came

444
00:12:15,958 --> 00:12:16,625
out, there was

445
00:12:16,625 --> 00:12:18,000
resistance from CEOs, because now

446
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,083
you're telling them how did they have to

447
00:12:19,083 --> 00:12:20,375
do training to where

448
00:12:20,375 --> 00:12:22,458
it became it's the norm,

449
00:12:22,458 --> 00:12:24,208
so that everyone had come up that way.

450
00:12:24,208 --> 00:12:25,875
So you could take someone out of any

451
00:12:25,875 --> 00:12:26,583
squadron and fly with them.

452
00:12:26,583 --> 00:12:27,875
And you knew exactly how they should

453
00:12:27,875 --> 00:12:29,416
perform based on their level of training.

454
00:12:30,250 --> 00:12:32,625
And the fact that we had SFTIs all

455
00:12:32,625 --> 00:12:34,958
around, so you know,

456
00:12:34,958 --> 00:12:36,333
several of my counterparts had

457
00:12:36,333 --> 00:12:37,750
went through either the power projection

458
00:12:37,750 --> 00:12:39,416
course, or the SFWT

459
00:12:39,416 --> 00:12:40,666
course, I'm what the two other

460
00:12:40,666 --> 00:12:43,625
CEOs were power projection.

461
00:12:43,625 --> 00:12:45,625
And then I had

462
00:12:45,625 --> 00:12:48,291
department heads in VFA 94.

463
00:12:48,291 --> 00:12:51,125
One of them went on to be the wing the

464
00:12:51,125 --> 00:12:52,333
Commodore, you know, he

465
00:12:52,333 --> 00:12:55,375
is, he was a he was a top gun

466
00:12:55,375 --> 00:12:58,333
instructor in SFWT.

467
00:12:58,458 --> 00:12:59,250
So we had a lot of

468
00:12:59,250 --> 00:13:00,375
people in all the squadrons.

469
00:13:00,375 --> 00:13:04,416
So it wasn't necessarily a, you know, I

470
00:13:04,416 --> 00:13:06,125
wasn't a, you know, VFA

471
00:13:06,125 --> 00:13:07,125
41 had to be the best, I

472
00:13:07,125 --> 00:13:09,000
just expected a standard.

473
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:10,250
And we ended up we did a lot, you know,

474
00:13:10,250 --> 00:13:12,041
part of it is the nature

475
00:13:12,041 --> 00:13:13,333
of, you know, one, I had

476
00:13:13,333 --> 00:13:16,541
brand new jets, which the F 18 squadrons,

477
00:13:16,541 --> 00:13:18,541
including the marine squadron did not.

478
00:13:18,541 --> 00:13:21,416
So my maintenance efforts and VFA 14

479
00:13:21,416 --> 00:13:22,416
maintenance efforts were

480
00:13:22,416 --> 00:13:23,958
lower because the jets didn't

481
00:13:23,958 --> 00:13:25,125
break.

482
00:13:25,125 --> 00:13:26,166
I had twice as many people

483
00:13:26,166 --> 00:13:27,041
because I had F squadrons.

484
00:13:27,125 --> 00:13:28,041
So I had the backseaters.

485
00:13:28,041 --> 00:13:30,500
So I had, you know, I think I had 40 some

486
00:13:30,500 --> 00:13:30,833
officers, I think it

487
00:13:30,833 --> 00:13:32,166
was 47 officers in the

488
00:13:32,166 --> 00:13:32,708
squadron, which

489
00:13:32,708 --> 00:13:34,500
normally are down in the 20s.

490
00:13:34,500 --> 00:13:36,333
So it allowed me a lot of flexibility to

491
00:13:36,333 --> 00:13:37,666
do things and allows my

492
00:13:37,666 --> 00:13:39,666
air crew to focus more

493
00:13:39,666 --> 00:13:40,416
on some things.

494
00:13:40,416 --> 00:13:43,041
But at the same time, if one squadron is

495
00:13:43,041 --> 00:13:43,708
good, and the other

496
00:13:43,708 --> 00:13:45,250
squadrons bad, then we're not

497
00:13:45,250 --> 00:13:46,000
getting to where we need to

498
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,541
go as a composite air wing.

499
00:13:48,541 --> 00:13:49,750
And we all train together.

500
00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:51,375
So we never went out like

501
00:13:51,375 --> 00:13:52,916
all four jets were VFA 41.

502
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,125
It was, you know, a VFA 41 jet and we got

503
00:13:56,125 --> 00:13:58,208
paired a lot with the Marines with 223.

504
00:13:58,208 --> 00:13:59,708
So like when we were doing the stuff in

505
00:13:59,708 --> 00:14:01,166
Iraq, you know, I'd go

506
00:14:01,166 --> 00:14:02,500
out with a brand new, you

507
00:14:02,500 --> 00:14:03,833
know, captain and the Marine Corps would

508
00:14:03,833 --> 00:14:05,458
be flying on my wing.

509
00:14:05,458 --> 00:14:07,333
So it was all about training those and

510
00:14:07,333 --> 00:14:08,083
then as you know, the

511
00:14:08,083 --> 00:14:09,916
most important thing is,

512
00:14:09,916 --> 00:14:11,208
you know, while you're doing the flight,

513
00:14:11,208 --> 00:14:13,208
there's the execution.

514
00:14:13,208 --> 00:14:15,000
But most of the stuff we do is training.

515
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,416
So where you really get the benefit is

516
00:14:16,416 --> 00:14:17,416
when you come back and

517
00:14:17,416 --> 00:14:18,416
you talk about it and you

518
00:14:18,416 --> 00:14:19,375
talk about everything.

519
00:14:19,750 --> 00:14:21,500
And it's not an aggressive like, you

520
00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:23,625
know, you were terrible today.

521
00:14:23,625 --> 00:14:24,458
We take that out.

522
00:14:24,458 --> 00:14:26,000
So it's always the fighter and the bandit

523
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,750
and what was the fighter thinking at this

524
00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:28,083
time?

525
00:14:28,083 --> 00:14:30,333
Yeah, it takes out the who it's not a

526
00:14:30,333 --> 00:14:32,125
name, it's we're not pointing fingers.

527
00:14:32,125 --> 00:14:33,333
But just like what were we thinking and

528
00:14:33,333 --> 00:14:34,958
here's a better option.

529
00:14:34,958 --> 00:14:37,791
And so that the next time they have that

530
00:14:37,791 --> 00:14:38,416
in the back of their

531
00:14:38,416 --> 00:14:39,500
head of, you know, this

532
00:14:39,500 --> 00:14:40,375
is something this

533
00:14:40,375 --> 00:14:41,333
worked really well for me.

534
00:14:41,333 --> 00:14:43,291
This is something that didn't work well.

535
00:14:43,291 --> 00:14:46,250
And you know, everyone has their day.

536
00:14:46,250 --> 00:14:48,166
It's just like a professional athlete.

537
00:14:48,291 --> 00:14:51,791
You know, you know, take, you know, any

538
00:14:51,791 --> 00:14:52,541
other, you know, Patrick

539
00:14:52,541 --> 00:14:56,541
Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers,

540
00:14:56,541 --> 00:14:59,833
Tom Brady, probably the best example.

541
00:14:59,833 --> 00:15:02,166
They have they've had bad games.

542
00:15:02,166 --> 00:15:04,083
They all go out and just have a bad game.

543
00:15:04,083 --> 00:15:05,666
It's what do you do after the bad game?

544
00:15:05,666 --> 00:15:06,625
Do you blame someone else?

545
00:15:06,625 --> 00:15:08,250
You just go, that was me.

546
00:15:08,250 --> 00:15:09,708
We need to fix this and move on.

547
00:15:09,708 --> 00:15:11,125
And that was kind of it.

548
00:15:11,125 --> 00:15:14,250
And for me and Dell, who was my exo and

549
00:15:14,250 --> 00:15:15,291
for Kenny, who was CEO

550
00:15:15,291 --> 00:15:17,000
when I was exo, because

551
00:15:17,333 --> 00:15:18,958
we move up, you know, when Kenny moved

552
00:15:18,958 --> 00:15:20,041
out, I became the CEO,

553
00:15:20,041 --> 00:15:20,833
Dell became the exo and

554
00:15:20,833 --> 00:15:24,000
I left Dell became the CEO.

555
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,000
We were, for the most part, you know, we

556
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,833
were probably 98, 99% on the same sheet.

557
00:15:29,833 --> 00:15:32,916
So when I took over for Kenny, it wasn't

558
00:15:32,916 --> 00:15:34,041
like this drastic night

559
00:15:34,041 --> 00:15:35,250
and day where I just said,

560
00:15:35,250 --> 00:15:36,666
oh my God, everything he did, because

561
00:15:36,666 --> 00:15:39,000
everything he did, I agreed with.

562
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,000
I actually loosened the reins on one

563
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,208
thing of allowing a flight

564
00:15:43,208 --> 00:15:44,041
to go out without a senior

565
00:15:44,458 --> 00:15:47,708
without an 04 above, which was fine.

566
00:15:47,708 --> 00:15:50,250
And then Dell changed

567
00:15:50,250 --> 00:15:51,416
very little when I left.

568
00:15:51,416 --> 00:15:53,250
So the squadron for that time, and I'm

569
00:15:53,250 --> 00:15:54,083
pretty sure when he

570
00:15:54,083 --> 00:15:56,166
turned over to Chaser, it was

571
00:15:56,166 --> 00:15:58,416
pretty much almost a seamless move.

572
00:15:58,416 --> 00:16:00,666
And the squadron maintained that

573
00:16:00,666 --> 00:16:03,458
reputation of, you know,

574
00:16:03,458 --> 00:16:04,250
because it's just, you know,

575
00:16:04,250 --> 00:16:05,083
you know, it is, you

576
00:16:05,083 --> 00:16:06,041
just want to be good.

577
00:16:06,041 --> 00:16:07,791
Everyone wants to perform.

578
00:16:07,791 --> 00:16:09,750
And those that don't, you just help them

579
00:16:09,750 --> 00:16:11,583
move on and get on with it.

580
00:16:12,333 --> 00:16:15,041
But it's just, you know, the organization

581
00:16:15,041 --> 00:16:15,833
will take on the

582
00:16:15,833 --> 00:16:16,333
personality of the leader.

583
00:16:16,333 --> 00:16:17,708
And if you want to accept mediocrity,

584
00:16:17,708 --> 00:16:19,833
that's exactly what you're going to get.

585
00:16:19,833 --> 00:16:21,500
And we just didn't accept it.

586
00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:23,333
And I have no regrets.

587
00:16:23,333 --> 00:16:26,166
And I mean, I had to build my squadron

588
00:16:26,166 --> 00:16:27,083
because we had a short time.

589
00:16:27,083 --> 00:16:28,666
We had a massive turnover right before

590
00:16:28,666 --> 00:16:30,958
cruise and the training

591
00:16:30,958 --> 00:16:31,791
squadron couldn't produce

592
00:16:31,791 --> 00:16:33,583
priors, which are top, you know, they

593
00:16:33,583 --> 00:16:35,000
have to have certain specs.

594
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,583
So I had to literally get waivers to

595
00:16:36,583 --> 00:16:37,583
bring people into my

596
00:16:37,583 --> 00:16:39,875
command to deploy, but we made

597
00:16:39,875 --> 00:16:40,625
it work.

598
00:16:41,125 --> 00:16:42,625
We had a, to this day, I

599
00:16:42,625 --> 00:16:44,708
think we had a really good group.

600
00:16:44,708 --> 00:16:48,083
We had a lot of fun, you know, so.

601
00:16:48,083 --> 00:16:50,750
You in touch with a lot of the people

602
00:16:50,750 --> 00:16:53,375
that served with you in that time period?

603
00:16:53,375 --> 00:16:54,291
Yeah, periodically.

604
00:16:54,291 --> 00:16:56,000
Well, obviously Alex, because she was in

605
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:56,666
the flight with me

606
00:16:56,666 --> 00:16:57,750
that with the tic tacs.

607
00:16:57,750 --> 00:16:59,583
So, you know, obviously her and I talk,

608
00:16:59,583 --> 00:17:01,000
but no, several of my

609
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:02,041
JOs, which is funny, because

610
00:17:02,041 --> 00:17:04,000
like my most junior guys in my squadron

611
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,416
are now a lot more post command folks.

612
00:17:09,125 --> 00:17:10,250
The guy that was in my back

613
00:17:10,250 --> 00:17:11,875
seat is still on active duty.

614
00:17:11,875 --> 00:17:13,375
He's a captain.

615
00:17:13,375 --> 00:17:16,125
My department head is a two star.

616
00:17:16,125 --> 00:17:17,083
You know, officially

617
00:17:17,083 --> 00:17:18,000
an old man in the Navy.

618
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:18,708
Kenny's a three star.

619
00:17:18,708 --> 00:17:19,958
You know, it's when you get that point,

620
00:17:19,958 --> 00:17:21,291
like my peers that are

621
00:17:21,291 --> 00:17:22,625
still in that were CEOs

622
00:17:22,625 --> 00:17:25,375
are three stars, three and four stars.

623
00:17:25,375 --> 00:17:28,750
So it's, you know, time goes, you know,

624
00:17:28,750 --> 00:17:30,166
and here in, you know,

625
00:17:30,166 --> 00:17:31,750
a few years, though, all

626
00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:33,916
of my folks will probably be out, you

627
00:17:33,916 --> 00:17:35,083
know, and I'll just be a

628
00:17:35,083 --> 00:17:36,291
relic, which is fine with

629
00:17:36,291 --> 00:17:37,000
me.

630
00:17:37,083 --> 00:17:39,083
But, you know, I always said, you know,

631
00:17:39,083 --> 00:17:40,000
what, what I got to do in

632
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:41,708
the Navy and in the military

633
00:17:41,708 --> 00:17:42,125
was great.

634
00:17:42,125 --> 00:17:42,958
I loved every minute of it.

635
00:17:42,958 --> 00:17:45,375
I think being a pilot like that and

636
00:17:45,375 --> 00:17:46,458
carrier aviation is the

637
00:17:46,458 --> 00:17:47,541
greatest job on the planet.

638
00:17:47,541 --> 00:17:49,458
And I'll hold to that.

639
00:17:49,458 --> 00:17:53,041
And you just because the experiences of

640
00:17:53,041 --> 00:17:55,000
being able to do what you do is amazing.

641
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,666
But the people that you get to work with

642
00:17:56,666 --> 00:17:59,291
in that environment

643
00:17:59,291 --> 00:18:01,208
from the lowest E1 in the

644
00:18:01,208 --> 00:18:03,125
squadron all the way up, they all provide

645
00:18:03,125 --> 00:18:04,500
an incredible value.

646
00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:07,250
And I've yet to find that type of

647
00:18:07,250 --> 00:18:09,416
camaraderie anywhere

648
00:18:09,416 --> 00:18:11,208
else since I got out.

649
00:18:11,208 --> 00:18:14,416
But why I say that it doesn't define,

650
00:18:14,416 --> 00:18:15,458
it's not who I am, you

651
00:18:15,458 --> 00:18:16,708
know, I don't have to introduce

652
00:18:16,708 --> 00:18:17,875
myself as you know, hey, I'm

653
00:18:17,875 --> 00:18:19,750
Dave, I was a fighter pilot.

654
00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:21,458
If you don't know, you're probably not

655
00:18:21,458 --> 00:18:22,125
going to get it out of me

656
00:18:22,125 --> 00:18:24,041
unless someone says something.

657
00:18:24,041 --> 00:18:25,208
Because to me, it's I don't I don't want

658
00:18:25,208 --> 00:18:26,625
to be defined by that.

659
00:18:26,625 --> 00:18:28,875
And my friends, you know, I worked with

660
00:18:28,875 --> 00:18:30,625
two folks, this is a good story.

661
00:18:30,833 --> 00:18:33,083
They were two flags from

662
00:18:33,083 --> 00:18:35,500
the same branch of service.

663
00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:36,625
And they both actually

664
00:18:36,625 --> 00:18:39,500
had had held the same job.

665
00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:40,500
You know, so they had

666
00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:42,416
large organizations.

667
00:18:42,416 --> 00:18:44,916
They were very combat oriented.

668
00:18:44,916 --> 00:18:46,916
One of them would introduce himself as I

669
00:18:46,916 --> 00:18:49,291
am, you know, by rank.

670
00:18:49,291 --> 00:18:51,416
The other one who actually probably did

671
00:18:51,416 --> 00:18:52,500
more, especially from a

672
00:18:52,500 --> 00:18:53,541
combat thing, because he

673
00:18:53,541 --> 00:18:56,458
had full up during the Iraqi freedom

674
00:18:56,458 --> 00:19:00,166
campaign, would never tell you.

675
00:19:00,250 --> 00:19:03,291
He would say hi, I'm so and so.

676
00:19:03,291 --> 00:19:05,750
And he would tell you, hey, I'm retired.

677
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:06,666
But that's it.

678
00:19:06,666 --> 00:19:07,875
He didn't he didn't he didn't have to

679
00:19:07,875 --> 00:19:08,666
tell you who he was.

680
00:19:08,666 --> 00:19:10,083
And it was one of those.

681
00:19:10,083 --> 00:19:10,708
If they don't know,

682
00:19:10,708 --> 00:19:11,750
they don't need to know.

683
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:12,750
If they know, that's fine.

684
00:19:12,750 --> 00:19:13,958
But he didn't he didn't

685
00:19:13,958 --> 00:19:15,375
define his life by that.

686
00:19:15,375 --> 00:19:15,875
He was one of the

687
00:19:15,875 --> 00:19:17,291
most humble individuals.

688
00:19:17,291 --> 00:19:18,125
I actually joked him because

689
00:19:18,125 --> 00:19:19,125
it was a different service.

690
00:19:19,125 --> 00:19:21,791
I said, you know, man, I said, I'd have

691
00:19:21,791 --> 00:19:22,500
been in that service.

692
00:19:22,500 --> 00:19:23,958
I could work for you.

693
00:19:23,958 --> 00:19:25,166
And he said, thanks.

694
00:19:25,166 --> 00:19:25,333
Thanks.

695
00:19:25,333 --> 00:19:26,083
That's very humbling.

696
00:19:26,083 --> 00:19:27,916
And he was when you when you meet you've

697
00:19:27,916 --> 00:19:28,458
seen people like that,

698
00:19:28,458 --> 00:19:29,083
when you meet leaders like

699
00:19:29,500 --> 00:19:31,375
that, they don't have to walk in with

700
00:19:31,375 --> 00:19:32,500
their rank that just walk

701
00:19:32,500 --> 00:19:33,666
in, they have a presence.

702
00:19:33,666 --> 00:19:34,458
And you know, and

703
00:19:34,458 --> 00:19:36,041
they're very humble about it.

704
00:19:36,041 --> 00:19:36,750
That's the one that people

705
00:19:36,750 --> 00:19:37,500
are really going to follow.

706
00:19:37,500 --> 00:19:40,000
To me, it was it was to

707
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:40,916
meet people like that.

708
00:19:40,916 --> 00:19:42,750
And I've worked for some amazing people

709
00:19:42,750 --> 00:19:45,291
across my career, which

710
00:19:45,291 --> 00:19:46,166
is probably you know, a lot

711
00:19:46,166 --> 00:19:46,958
of those guys are three

712
00:19:46,958 --> 00:19:49,375
and four stars right now.

713
00:19:49,375 --> 00:19:51,291
Then I made the choice to just leave.

714
00:19:51,291 --> 00:19:53,000
So it's it's all right.

715
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,583
I'm very happy with my decisions.

716
00:19:55,583 --> 00:19:57,000
And why did that?

717
00:19:58,291 --> 00:20:00,958
So you know, you had you brought it up,

718
00:20:00,958 --> 00:20:02,083
you had an experience

719
00:20:02,083 --> 00:20:04,125
with the tic tac, as it's

720
00:20:04,125 --> 00:20:05,875
known now, and, you know, we don't have

721
00:20:05,875 --> 00:20:06,750
to go into great depth

722
00:20:06,750 --> 00:20:08,208
of particular experience,

723
00:20:08,208 --> 00:20:10,041
but I wouldn't mind getting a little meta

724
00:20:10,041 --> 00:20:11,833
around the conversation.

725
00:20:11,833 --> 00:20:14,250
So that happened while you were in the

726
00:20:14,250 --> 00:20:17,125
position of commanding officer of VFA 41.

727
00:20:17,125 --> 00:20:17,625
Correct?

728
00:20:17,625 --> 00:20:18,458
Yeah, I've been in

729
00:20:18,458 --> 00:20:20,416
command for about a month.

730
00:20:20,416 --> 00:20:22,416
Okay, I took over from Kenny, and I think

731
00:20:22,416 --> 00:20:24,375
it was like October 16,

732
00:20:24,375 --> 00:20:24,958
somewhere around there,

733
00:20:24,958 --> 00:20:26,833
we just come back from s for weed.

734
00:20:28,250 --> 00:20:29,583
You know, and the kind of leader, you

735
00:20:29,583 --> 00:20:30,541
know, some people like

736
00:20:30,541 --> 00:20:31,333
when you're in command, you

737
00:20:31,333 --> 00:20:33,041
don't want your replacement coming in.

738
00:20:33,041 --> 00:20:35,291
So we were going to s for so it was, you

739
00:20:35,291 --> 00:20:36,291
know, Kenny was the

740
00:20:36,291 --> 00:20:37,583
boss, and then me, I was his

741
00:20:40,833 --> 00:20:39,000
exo.

742
00:20:40,833 --> 00:20:43,625
He was in the more and I said, Well, do

743
00:20:43,625 --> 00:20:44,875
we want to bring him

744
00:20:44,875 --> 00:20:46,500
on s for and Kenny said,

745
00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:48,708
by all means we do, which

746
00:20:48,708 --> 00:20:51,791
is a huge testament to him.

747
00:20:51,791 --> 00:20:52,958
You know, he doesn't have this

748
00:20:52,958 --> 00:20:53,916
insecurity, like I'm going

749
00:20:53,916 --> 00:20:55,500
out because you know, and he's

750
00:20:55,833 --> 00:20:56,750
done quite well for

751
00:20:56,750 --> 00:20:58,500
himself, obviously in the Navy.

752
00:20:58,500 --> 00:20:59,875
So we all went and had a great time.

753
00:20:59,875 --> 00:21:01,500
And then we came back, we were all three

754
00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:02,166
there, we were all

755
00:21:02,166 --> 00:21:03,083
three ready to do the change

756
00:21:03,083 --> 00:21:05,333
command, we all worked on it.

757
00:21:05,333 --> 00:21:07,000
You know, because you usually know, on

758
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:07,875
the outgoing, you want

759
00:21:07,875 --> 00:21:09,541
it to go really well.

760
00:21:09,541 --> 00:21:11,750
Because you know, it's when you when you

761
00:21:11,750 --> 00:21:12,791
do that, you know, I

762
00:21:12,791 --> 00:21:13,333
don't tell you when you

763
00:21:13,333 --> 00:21:14,208
do it.

764
00:21:14,208 --> 00:21:15,708
When you turn over a squadron, you feel

765
00:21:15,708 --> 00:21:17,291
like someone died, like

766
00:21:17,291 --> 00:21:18,083
someone has removed a piece

767
00:21:18,083 --> 00:21:18,375
of you.

768
00:21:18,375 --> 00:21:19,791
So when you walk off the dais after a

769
00:21:19,791 --> 00:21:21,375
change of command, and you're the

770
00:21:21,375 --> 00:21:22,625
outgoing, you literally

771
00:21:22,625 --> 00:21:23,375
feel like someone died.

772
00:21:23,541 --> 00:21:24,625
And you know, like Kenny live

773
00:21:24,625 --> 00:21:26,000
like five doors down for me.

774
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,708
I mean, we were pretty close.

775
00:21:27,708 --> 00:21:28,625
We were very close, we

776
00:21:28,625 --> 00:21:31,083
spent a lot of time together.

777
00:21:31,083 --> 00:21:34,000
But to have that and to for him to be

778
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:34,583
secure enough to go

779
00:21:34,583 --> 00:21:36,166
Yeah, because some I've seen

780
00:21:36,166 --> 00:21:37,333
squadrons where they're like, no, he can

781
00:21:37,333 --> 00:21:38,500
come when I'm gone on the

782
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:39,416
day of the change command.

783
00:21:39,416 --> 00:21:43,000
So I had a we had a ship like that, where

784
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,041
I got to know the CEO

785
00:21:44,041 --> 00:21:44,750
really well, because

786
00:21:44,750 --> 00:21:46,125
the outgoing CEO didn't want him riding

787
00:21:46,125 --> 00:21:48,125
the boat from California to Hawaii.

788
00:21:48,125 --> 00:21:48,416
Wow.

789
00:21:48,416 --> 00:21:49,333
So he wrote on Nimitz

790
00:21:49,333 --> 00:21:50,750
with us and both well.

791
00:21:52,083 --> 00:21:55,833
No, but the guy who came in, Bill was

792
00:21:55,833 --> 00:21:57,041
well, both of them were good guys.

793
00:21:57,041 --> 00:21:58,833
They were very good, very, very, very,

794
00:21:58,833 --> 00:22:01,333
very competent at what they did.

795
00:22:01,333 --> 00:22:02,958
But we got to know

796
00:22:02,958 --> 00:22:04,208
Bill really, really well.

797
00:22:04,208 --> 00:22:05,875
And when we went on cruise, because he

798
00:22:05,875 --> 00:22:07,791
knew us really well, we

799
00:22:07,791 --> 00:22:09,125
were able to do a lot of

800
00:22:09,125 --> 00:22:11,166
things that would have never happened had

801
00:22:11,166 --> 00:22:12,041
we not had that

802
00:22:12,041 --> 00:22:14,000
friendship and that bonding.

803
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,083
So so you were the commanding

804
00:22:16,083 --> 00:22:18,291
officer, you just got there.

805
00:22:18,458 --> 00:22:22,000
You have this experience, we go into a

806
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,625
little quick details in a

807
00:22:23,625 --> 00:22:24,583
little bit, I think most

808
00:22:24,583 --> 00:22:25,333
of the listeners will

809
00:22:25,333 --> 00:22:26,541
probably be familiar.

810
00:22:26,541 --> 00:22:28,958
But when you came back at my

811
00:22:28,958 --> 00:22:29,916
understanding is that you got

812
00:22:29,916 --> 00:22:31,416
I would say probably par for

813
00:22:31,416 --> 00:22:33,041
the course, you know,

814
00:22:33,041 --> 00:22:34,333
harassment on this topic.

815
00:22:34,333 --> 00:22:35,625
Oh, yeah.

816
00:22:35,625 --> 00:22:37,583
But what I'm more interested in is what

817
00:22:37,583 --> 00:22:38,875
about your kind of more

818
00:22:38,875 --> 00:22:39,833
senior colleagues that have

819
00:22:39,833 --> 00:22:41,291
known you for a while at this point, how

820
00:22:41,291 --> 00:22:42,000
did they engage in

821
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,458
this topic with you if you

822
00:22:43,458 --> 00:22:44,083
engage them?

823
00:22:44,083 --> 00:22:45,333
No, they were.

824
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,708
So I knew I knew the captain pretty well.

825
00:22:48,708 --> 00:22:50,500
Of the ship.

826
00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:52,250
At the time, we're not the

827
00:22:52,250 --> 00:22:53,708
same one that we deployed with.

828
00:22:53,708 --> 00:22:57,208
But I didn't at that time, I ended up

829
00:22:57,208 --> 00:22:59,250
being got to know the

830
00:22:59,250 --> 00:23:01,500
next Admiral really well.

831
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:03,333
But the Admiral that we had during that

832
00:23:03,333 --> 00:23:04,500
time, I didn't, I didn't,

833
00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:06,291
he didn't really, he didn't

834
00:23:06,291 --> 00:23:08,375
converse with us much.

835
00:23:08,375 --> 00:23:12,583
Where the next one was out more and we

836
00:23:12,583 --> 00:23:13,708
hung out with their staff a lot.

837
00:23:14,708 --> 00:23:16,833
Matter of fact, I'm getting ready to go

838
00:23:16,833 --> 00:23:22,791
to a retirement for

839
00:23:22,791 --> 00:23:24,541
the lawyer that was with

840
00:23:24,541 --> 00:23:26,333
us.

841
00:23:26,333 --> 00:23:28,583
But the senior folks know like the

842
00:23:28,583 --> 00:23:29,208
captain they would they

843
00:23:29,208 --> 00:23:30,000
just saw it said, Hey, what

844
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:30,416
do you think?

845
00:23:30,416 --> 00:23:33,000
And I said, you know, when you look at

846
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,416
him and go, I have no idea what it was.

847
00:23:35,416 --> 00:23:36,375
I mean, it was the weirdest thing I've

848
00:23:36,375 --> 00:23:37,041
ever seen in my life.

849
00:23:37,041 --> 00:23:39,416
And I told my backseater that most of

850
00:23:39,416 --> 00:23:40,250
them are very accepting

851
00:23:40,250 --> 00:23:40,750
because you know how it

852
00:23:40,750 --> 00:23:40,958
is.

853
00:23:40,958 --> 00:23:42,083
There's a level of confidence.

854
00:23:43,041 --> 00:23:44,083
You know, a whack job

855
00:23:44,083 --> 00:23:45,875
not in that position.

856
00:23:45,875 --> 00:23:47,250
So once they figured out they're like,

857
00:23:47,250 --> 00:23:48,208
what do you think but

858
00:23:48,208 --> 00:23:49,625
you also got a in this I

859
00:23:49,625 --> 00:23:51,958
think this is what frustrates people that

860
00:23:51,958 --> 00:23:53,333
don't understand how it

861
00:23:53,333 --> 00:23:54,875
works is we're literally

862
00:23:54,875 --> 00:23:56,750
at our first at sea period, which was

863
00:23:56,750 --> 00:23:57,791
combined into a two month

864
00:23:57,791 --> 00:23:59,000
periods, we were doing the

865
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,583
whole comp to a ref to a comp to all that

866
00:24:01,583 --> 00:24:02,666
all in one that two

867
00:24:02,666 --> 00:24:04,375
month at sea period, where

868
00:24:04,375 --> 00:24:06,166
we pulled in for Thanksgiving.

869
00:24:06,166 --> 00:24:07,375
And we actually had to convince them to

870
00:24:07,375 --> 00:24:08,375
let us go back up to

871
00:24:08,375 --> 00:24:09,083
LaMorse we could drive up

872
00:24:09,458 --> 00:24:10,916
spend Thanksgiving with our families,

873
00:24:10,916 --> 00:24:12,958
which they allowed us to do.

874
00:24:12,958 --> 00:24:14,708
But we literally had like that five day

875
00:24:14,708 --> 00:24:15,375
gap where the ship

876
00:24:15,375 --> 00:24:16,541
pulled in, we got off, we went

877
00:24:16,541 --> 00:24:17,750
to Thanksgiving, we came back, we got

878
00:24:17,750 --> 00:24:18,625
back on and we're out.

879
00:24:18,625 --> 00:24:20,125
So from the beginning of November, when

880
00:24:20,125 --> 00:24:22,125
we left, except for that

881
00:24:22,125 --> 00:24:25,750
five day jump over Thanksgiving,

882
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:27,041
we were out to like, like

883
00:24:27,041 --> 00:24:29,916
the 21st or 22nd of December.

884
00:24:29,916 --> 00:24:31,041
So where were you operating?

885
00:24:31,041 --> 00:24:32,958
Off the coast of San Diego, which is

886
00:24:32,958 --> 00:24:34,166
there's a bunch of

887
00:24:34,166 --> 00:24:35,500
called warning areas, which is

888
00:24:35,500 --> 00:24:37,000
basically just tells

889
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,541
people who are flying airplanes.

890
00:24:38,625 --> 00:24:40,291
There's high military activity out here,

891
00:24:40,291 --> 00:24:41,583
you know, enter at your own risk.

892
00:24:41,583 --> 00:24:43,875
It's not a prohibited that you can't go

893
00:24:43,875 --> 00:24:45,083
into, like the airplane

894
00:24:45,083 --> 00:24:46,250
that just flew across DC

895
00:24:46,250 --> 00:24:47,166
and then ended up crashing

896
00:24:47,166 --> 00:24:48,875
because they were hypoxic.

897
00:24:48,875 --> 00:24:50,625
That is that's P airspace, that's

898
00:24:50,625 --> 00:24:51,833
prohibited airspace, then there's

899
00:24:51,833 --> 00:24:52,541
restricted airspace,

900
00:24:52,541 --> 00:24:53,958
which is like the bombing ranges, which

901
00:24:53,958 --> 00:24:54,666
you don't want to go in

902
00:24:54,666 --> 00:24:55,500
there, which I've seen

903
00:24:55,500 --> 00:24:56,291
people do.

904
00:24:56,291 --> 00:24:57,916
And then the warning areas are just

905
00:24:57,916 --> 00:24:58,833
basically military

906
00:24:58,833 --> 00:25:00,083
operating areas over water.

907
00:25:00,083 --> 00:25:01,333
So we were out there playing

908
00:25:01,333 --> 00:25:02,666
around for that two months.

909
00:25:02,666 --> 00:25:05,291
So you know, we go on this flight, you

910
00:25:05,291 --> 00:25:06,333
know, obviously the

911
00:25:06,333 --> 00:25:07,291
cruiser had seen all that stuff

912
00:25:07,541 --> 00:25:08,250
never told us we didn't

913
00:25:08,250 --> 00:25:09,750
even know they were out there.

914
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:11,125
And we go out on that training mission.

915
00:25:11,125 --> 00:25:12,625
And I'm not going to repeat the story.

916
00:25:12,625 --> 00:25:15,416
But you know, we're the first time that

917
00:25:15,416 --> 00:25:16,333
they had actually seen

918
00:25:16,333 --> 00:25:18,458
the things and they had

919
00:25:18,458 --> 00:25:21,041
manned airplanes, you know, going out.

920
00:25:21,041 --> 00:25:22,833
So they said, Hey, kill the train, let's

921
00:25:22,833 --> 00:25:23,458
go figure out these

922
00:25:23,458 --> 00:25:24,041
things are because we've

923
00:25:24,041 --> 00:25:24,458
been seeing them.

924
00:25:24,458 --> 00:25:25,708
And that's exactly what happened.

925
00:25:25,708 --> 00:25:27,500
And then you get out there and then you

926
00:25:27,500 --> 00:25:28,125
see it and you're

927
00:25:28,125 --> 00:25:30,416
like, okay, and you get the

928
00:25:30,416 --> 00:25:32,750
standard process like, okay, low over

929
00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:34,625
water white helicopter,

930
00:25:34,625 --> 00:25:35,208
okay, then your brain goes

931
00:25:35,541 --> 00:25:37,416
into okay, identifying things of a

932
00:25:37,416 --> 00:25:39,666
helicopter, rotors, rotor

933
00:25:39,666 --> 00:25:41,083
wash, tail boom, doesn't have

934
00:25:41,083 --> 00:25:41,833
any of that.

935
00:25:41,833 --> 00:25:42,625
Okay.

936
00:25:42,625 --> 00:25:43,833
Not a helicopter.

937
00:25:43,833 --> 00:25:44,458
Okay.

938
00:25:44,458 --> 00:25:45,833
Well, let's go down and get closer to it.

939
00:25:45,833 --> 00:25:47,166
And then it comes back up at us.

940
00:25:47,166 --> 00:25:49,083
And you're like, okay, we don't have

941
00:25:49,083 --> 00:25:49,750
anything to just kind of

942
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:50,708
hang out over the water like

943
00:25:50,708 --> 00:25:50,791
that.

944
00:25:50,791 --> 00:25:52,416
And then just come up and match me in a

945
00:25:52,416 --> 00:25:53,541
two circle flow uphill

946
00:25:53,541 --> 00:25:55,083
while I'm coming downhill.

947
00:25:55,083 --> 00:25:57,000
And then when we cut across and it goes

948
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,083
as it's crossing my nose,

949
00:25:58,083 --> 00:25:59,166
it just rapidly accelerates

950
00:25:59,166 --> 00:26:01,500
and disappears.

951
00:26:02,125 --> 00:26:03,875
What does that mean tactically to you as

952
00:26:03,875 --> 00:26:05,083
a pilot when something

953
00:26:05,083 --> 00:26:07,291
matches you two circle?

954
00:26:07,291 --> 00:26:09,166
How do you explain it to a layman?

955
00:26:09,166 --> 00:26:12,791
Well, here's the easiest way is one, so

956
00:26:12,791 --> 00:26:14,041
I'm coming downhill and

957
00:26:14,041 --> 00:26:15,208
I'm probably doing around

958
00:26:15,208 --> 00:26:15,583
300 knots.

959
00:26:15,583 --> 00:26:17,500
There's a reason 300 knots is like a

960
00:26:17,500 --> 00:26:18,291
really good airspeed for

961
00:26:18,291 --> 00:26:19,833
the airplane if you need

962
00:26:19,833 --> 00:26:21,083
maneuverability.

963
00:26:21,083 --> 00:26:22,208
So as I'm coming down, then all of a

964
00:26:22,208 --> 00:26:23,000
sudden you got something

965
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:23,958
hovering and it just turns

966
00:26:23,958 --> 00:26:25,708
and it's like almost instantaneous.

967
00:26:25,708 --> 00:26:26,708
It's doing the same

968
00:26:26,708 --> 00:26:27,666
speed as me, it goes around.

969
00:26:27,791 --> 00:26:31,375
So now you start questioning, you know,

970
00:26:31,375 --> 00:26:32,833
thrust away is pretty impressive.

971
00:26:32,833 --> 00:26:34,375
You can just instantaneously accelerate

972
00:26:34,375 --> 00:26:35,333
and start matching an

973
00:26:35,333 --> 00:26:36,375
airplane that's coming downhill

974
00:26:36,375 --> 00:26:37,250
when you're coming uphill.

975
00:26:37,250 --> 00:26:40,000
Is he essentially on your lift vector?

976
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:41,333
No, he's off my wing.

977
00:26:41,333 --> 00:26:42,541
Stabilized flight like

978
00:26:42,541 --> 00:26:43,583
he's very stabilized.

979
00:26:43,583 --> 00:26:45,291
So would you say it's like he's

980
00:26:45,291 --> 00:26:45,791
stabilized it so you're

981
00:26:45,791 --> 00:26:47,958
no longer closing on on it?

982
00:26:47,958 --> 00:26:49,708
Or you can only bring your nose around or

983
00:26:49,708 --> 00:26:52,000
is it just no, he's across the circle.

984
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,708
So if you look at it, it's like, I don't

985
00:26:55,708 --> 00:26:56,500
know if kids still play

986
00:26:56,500 --> 00:26:57,208
it ring around the Rosie

987
00:26:57,541 --> 00:26:59,458
or duck duck goose where when you're a

988
00:26:59,458 --> 00:27:00,458
kid, everyone sat in a

989
00:27:00,458 --> 00:27:01,458
circle and then two people

990
00:27:01,458 --> 00:27:02,833
were at one on one side, one on the

991
00:27:02,833 --> 00:27:04,208
other, and he'd walk

992
00:27:04,208 --> 00:27:05,291
around and duck duck duck and

993
00:27:05,291 --> 00:27:06,083
he'd run.

994
00:27:06,083 --> 00:27:08,458
And, you know, eventually the cheapest,

995
00:27:08,458 --> 00:27:09,291
the easiest way to get

996
00:27:09,291 --> 00:27:10,125
someone is to cut across

997
00:27:10,125 --> 00:27:12,666
the circle or you're faster than them.

998
00:27:12,666 --> 00:27:14,416
So in a two circle flow, the one who can

999
00:27:14,416 --> 00:27:15,458
get around the circle

1000
00:27:15,458 --> 00:27:16,333
fastest is the one who's

1001
00:27:16,333 --> 00:27:17,208
probably going to win because he's going

1002
00:27:17,208 --> 00:27:18,333
to become more and more offensive.

1003
00:27:18,333 --> 00:27:20,375
And eventually if he's fast enough, he's

1004
00:27:20,375 --> 00:27:23,250
going to end up behind the other person.

1005
00:27:23,250 --> 00:27:24,083
Do you think he was fast

1006
00:27:24,083 --> 00:27:25,750
enough to get behind you?

1007
00:27:25,750 --> 00:27:26,083
Oh yeah.

1008
00:27:26,541 --> 00:27:28,083
You know, we didn't know that at the

1009
00:27:28,083 --> 00:27:30,000
time, you know, I just saw it.

1010
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,541
Like, you know, I guess what I'm trying

1011
00:27:31,541 --> 00:27:33,083
to ask is what's your

1012
00:27:33,083 --> 00:27:34,000
tactical assessment of

1013
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,166
it making that maneuver?

1014
00:27:35,166 --> 00:27:36,875
Was it to stabilize the situation?

1015
00:27:36,875 --> 00:27:37,833
Was it trying to?

1016
00:27:37,833 --> 00:27:39,250
Yeah, I think it's just to neutralize me

1017
00:27:39,250 --> 00:27:41,333
coming down and to see, and

1018
00:27:41,333 --> 00:27:42,875
maybe I don't know, because

1019
00:27:42,875 --> 00:27:44,583
you don't know if it was, you know, like

1020
00:27:44,583 --> 00:27:45,375
I said, it didn't, it

1021
00:27:45,375 --> 00:27:46,250
didn't have windows or

1022
00:27:46,250 --> 00:27:48,333
anything, but you don't know, you know,

1023
00:27:48,333 --> 00:27:50,083
maybe it was virtual.

1024
00:27:50,083 --> 00:27:50,625
It could turn.

1025
00:27:50,625 --> 00:27:52,041
I mean, we already saw how it moved.

1026
00:27:52,125 --> 00:27:54,583
We already saw it abruptly just swap its

1027
00:27:54,583 --> 00:27:55,916
axis from north south to

1028
00:27:55,916 --> 00:27:57,416
basically, you know, west

1029
00:27:57,416 --> 00:27:59,625
to east and start coming up at us.

1030
00:27:59,625 --> 00:28:01,291
So you knew it had some maneuvering

1031
00:28:01,291 --> 00:28:02,875
capabilities that you don't have.

1032
00:28:02,875 --> 00:28:04,666
And then for it to just to match us as

1033
00:28:04,666 --> 00:28:05,541
we're going around the

1034
00:28:05,541 --> 00:28:06,458
circle, you know, it's pretty

1035
00:28:06,458 --> 00:28:09,833
much at the same speed coming up at you.

1036
00:28:09,833 --> 00:28:11,208
And that's when I decided when we went

1037
00:28:11,208 --> 00:28:12,083
all the way around once

1038
00:28:12,083 --> 00:28:12,916
and it was, I was getting

1039
00:28:12,916 --> 00:28:16,916
to that basically my vertical turn room.

1040
00:28:16,916 --> 00:28:19,333
That's when I cut across the circle and

1041
00:28:19,333 --> 00:28:20,416
it just, it didn't come at us.

1042
00:28:20,416 --> 00:28:21,625
It was never, it was never threatened.

1043
00:28:21,708 --> 00:28:24,250
I never felt threatened at all.

1044
00:28:24,250 --> 00:28:25,666
And as it came up, you know, and you can

1045
00:28:25,666 --> 00:28:26,541
see, because we have a

1046
00:28:26,541 --> 00:28:27,458
glare shield, which is the

1047
00:28:27,458 --> 00:28:29,291
canopy rail where the canopy closes, you

1048
00:28:29,291 --> 00:28:30,041
know, between the

1049
00:28:30,041 --> 00:28:31,750
windshield and the roof that comes

1050
00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:32,625
down.

1051
00:28:32,625 --> 00:28:34,916
Once it got inside of that to my

1052
00:28:34,916 --> 00:28:36,083
windscreen in that left

1053
00:28:36,083 --> 00:28:37,166
quarter, you could kind of start

1054
00:28:37,166 --> 00:28:39,041
to see it as it accelerated and in that

1055
00:28:39,041 --> 00:28:39,833
short period of time,

1056
00:28:39,833 --> 00:28:41,291
which if you put a ruler there

1057
00:28:41,291 --> 00:28:45,375
is like what maybe a max of 12 inches.

1058
00:28:45,375 --> 00:28:48,000
It just accelerates and goes away, you

1059
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:48,666
know, and like I've

1060
00:28:48,666 --> 00:28:49,500
always said, the one regret

1061
00:28:49,833 --> 00:28:52,208
is we didn't have the helmet cam on

1062
00:28:52,208 --> 00:28:52,875
because no one really

1063
00:28:52,875 --> 00:28:54,000
turns the helmet cam on because

1064
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:54,875
it's annoying.

1065
00:28:54,875 --> 00:28:56,541
No one watches that video.

1066
00:28:56,541 --> 00:28:58,166
Had we had the helmet cam on, we probably

1067
00:28:58,166 --> 00:28:59,750
got some really cool video of this thing,

1068
00:28:59,750 --> 00:29:00,958
but we didn't have the helmet cam on.

1069
00:29:00,958 --> 00:29:01,750
So it's a regret.

1070
00:29:01,750 --> 00:29:03,333
But luckily Chad went

1071
00:29:03,333 --> 00:29:04,208
out on the next flight.

1072
00:29:04,208 --> 00:29:05,333
We landed, told him about it.

1073
00:29:05,333 --> 00:29:07,291
And he just happened to, by luck, that

1074
00:29:07,291 --> 00:29:09,500
thing was where we told it would be.

1075
00:29:09,500 --> 00:29:10,291
And he caught that

1076
00:29:10,291 --> 00:29:11,541
minute 30 second video.

1077
00:29:11,541 --> 00:29:13,416
So kind of cool.

1078
00:29:13,416 --> 00:29:14,791
That he did because he came

1079
00:29:14,791 --> 00:29:15,750
back and told us right away.

1080
00:29:15,833 --> 00:29:17,375
And then we were all, because we had

1081
00:29:17,375 --> 00:29:18,875
debriefed our flight and

1082
00:29:18,875 --> 00:29:19,875
our flight was pretty much

1083
00:29:19,875 --> 00:29:21,458
what was that?

1084
00:29:21,458 --> 00:29:23,500
That's the strangest thing.

1085
00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:25,333
And I was at the time, I don't know, I

1086
00:29:25,333 --> 00:29:28,000
was probably around 3,600 hours.

1087
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,458
So that's a lot of hours in a tackle jet.

1088
00:29:30,458 --> 00:29:31,750
Yeah.

1089
00:29:31,750 --> 00:29:36,708
And to see that you're like, whoa.

1090
00:29:36,708 --> 00:29:39,583
And Nudes was in my back

1091
00:29:39,583 --> 00:29:42,000
and he had done the O3 cruise.

1092
00:29:42,541 --> 00:29:43,958
He had done mostly O3

1093
00:29:43,958 --> 00:29:47,083
cruise and then Alex was new.

1094
00:29:47,083 --> 00:29:49,416
She had been in the squadron for four

1095
00:29:49,416 --> 00:29:49,958
months, five months.

1096
00:29:49,958 --> 00:29:51,541
She got there in June, right

1097
00:29:51,541 --> 00:29:52,333
before we did Northern Edge.

1098
00:29:52,333 --> 00:29:55,166
She was June, July, August, five months

1099
00:29:55,166 --> 00:29:57,000
she had been in the squadron.

1100
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,083
And then her back

1101
00:29:58,083 --> 00:29:59,833
seater was an experience.

1102
00:29:59,833 --> 00:30:01,583
He was one of the department heads who

1103
00:30:01,583 --> 00:30:02,458
had worked for me at

1104
00:30:02,458 --> 00:30:03,500
the previous tour on this

1105
00:30:03,500 --> 00:30:07,375
one and very, very competent gym.

1106
00:30:07,375 --> 00:30:08,833
So he had basically

1107
00:30:08,833 --> 00:30:10,500
two really experienced.

1108
00:30:11,208 --> 00:30:14,000
One moderately experienced and one new.

1109
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,208
And by the way, and you know, it is not

1110
00:30:16,208 --> 00:30:17,083
only is Alex new, but

1111
00:30:17,083 --> 00:30:18,416
she's flying on the CO's

1112
00:30:18,416 --> 00:30:20,166
wing, which is there's,

1113
00:30:20,166 --> 00:30:21,291
there's a lot of pressure.

1114
00:30:21,291 --> 00:30:22,333
It's like, you know, you

1115
00:30:22,333 --> 00:30:23,291
got to do a presentation.

1116
00:30:23,291 --> 00:30:24,125
It's the first time you're doing it.

1117
00:30:24,125 --> 00:30:26,166
Your boss is there.

1118
00:30:26,166 --> 00:30:27,708
I remember that flight for me when I went

1119
00:30:27,708 --> 00:30:29,875
out to the enterprise for the first time.

1120
00:30:29,875 --> 00:30:31,083
Fortunately, if one of the first time I

1121
00:30:31,083 --> 00:30:32,250
flew off my skipper's wing,

1122
00:30:32,250 --> 00:30:36,041
I ended up with a undetected

1123
00:30:36,041 --> 00:30:38,750
bleed air break.

1124
00:30:39,041 --> 00:30:40,500
And it was essentially like a little

1125
00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:41,583
laser cutting through

1126
00:30:41,583 --> 00:30:42,583
the control feedback lines

1127
00:30:42,583 --> 00:30:44,250
on the stick.

1128
00:30:44,250 --> 00:30:46,166
And so I basically limped the jet back,

1129
00:30:46,166 --> 00:30:47,250
didn't do a good job of

1130
00:30:47,250 --> 00:30:47,958
communicating how serious

1131
00:30:47,958 --> 00:30:50,458
the situation was with the LSOs.

1132
00:30:50,458 --> 00:30:52,625
And you know, I had, if I wanted to stick

1133
00:30:52,625 --> 00:30:53,291
the aircraft to the

1134
00:30:53,291 --> 00:30:54,375
right, I'd take two hands

1135
00:30:54,375 --> 00:30:56,875
to push the stick over to get it to go.

1136
00:30:56,875 --> 00:30:58,916
And if I tapped it to the left, it would

1137
00:30:58,916 --> 00:31:01,208
basically go 120 degrees right over.

1138
00:31:01,208 --> 00:31:01,250
Oh, wow.

1139
00:31:01,250 --> 00:31:01,791
It's very strange.

1140
00:31:01,791 --> 00:31:04,000
And so I had to bring it back onto the

1141
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,166
ship and yeah, long

1142
00:31:07,166 --> 00:31:08,041
story short, they ended up

1143
00:31:08,291 --> 00:31:11,166
having to depot the jet because of the

1144
00:31:11,166 --> 00:31:13,416
damage in there from the bleed lines.

1145
00:31:13,416 --> 00:31:15,000
Yeah, bleed air is nasty stuff.

1146
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,833
Yeah, but I digress.

1147
00:31:16,833 --> 00:31:20,291
So you've told your story a lot, you

1148
00:31:20,291 --> 00:31:21,416
know, 60 Minutes, Joe

1149
00:31:21,416 --> 00:31:23,208
Rogan, all over the place.

1150
00:31:23,208 --> 00:31:24,500
What do you want people to understand

1151
00:31:24,500 --> 00:31:25,875
about that experience

1152
00:31:25,875 --> 00:31:29,333
that doesn't come up a lot?

1153
00:31:29,333 --> 00:31:31,333
Well, the biggest one for

1154
00:31:31,333 --> 00:31:34,958
me is, and it's died down.

1155
00:31:36,541 --> 00:31:36,958
People shouldn't try

1156
00:31:36,958 --> 00:31:38,541
and embellish the story.

1157
00:31:38,541 --> 00:31:39,458
The story is what it is.

1158
00:31:39,458 --> 00:31:40,875
And there's all kinds

1159
00:31:40,875 --> 00:31:42,416
of stuff coming out.

1160
00:31:42,416 --> 00:31:45,000
Like people watched it live, you know,

1161
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:45,958
like I was sitting and

1162
00:31:45,958 --> 00:31:46,916
watching it while it was

1163
00:31:46,916 --> 00:31:47,375
happening.

1164
00:31:47,375 --> 00:31:48,833
Well, that's funny because the jet didn't

1165
00:31:48,833 --> 00:31:49,541
have the ability to

1166
00:31:49,541 --> 00:31:50,500
send that video back at

1167
00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:51,250
the time.

1168
00:31:51,250 --> 00:31:51,916
And oh, by the way, we

1169
00:31:51,916 --> 00:31:53,083
weren't taking any video.

1170
00:31:53,083 --> 00:31:55,083
So you didn't watch it live.

1171
00:31:55,083 --> 00:31:56,500
Next one is the, oh,

1172
00:31:56,500 --> 00:31:57,541
it was 10 minutes long.

1173
00:31:57,541 --> 00:31:58,000
I watched it.

1174
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:58,500
It's 10 minutes long.

1175
00:31:58,500 --> 00:31:59,375
It's not 10 minutes long.

1176
00:31:59,375 --> 00:32:00,958
It's that minute 30 seconds.

1177
00:32:00,958 --> 00:32:01,500
That's what it is.

1178
00:32:01,500 --> 00:32:02,541
What it is.

1179
00:32:02,541 --> 00:32:03,791
Matter of fact, the pilot that was flying

1180
00:32:03,791 --> 00:32:06,125
the airplane when Chad took the video.

1181
00:32:06,500 --> 00:32:10,375
If you talk to them, it was uneventful.

1182
00:32:10,375 --> 00:32:11,833
Like almost like, because

1183
00:32:11,833 --> 00:32:12,916
I said, would you remember?

1184
00:32:12,916 --> 00:32:14,541
And they're like, no, it's

1185
00:32:14,541 --> 00:32:16,416
kind of like a no big deal.

1186
00:32:16,416 --> 00:32:17,458
You know, if you look, the jet's on

1187
00:32:17,458 --> 00:32:18,708
autopilot doing 250 knots

1188
00:32:18,708 --> 00:32:20,041
when he takes that video.

1189
00:32:20,041 --> 00:32:25,500
So I mean, it was, you know, what it was

1190
00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:26,625
because, you know, I've

1191
00:32:26,625 --> 00:32:31,416
heard very intellectual PhDs

1192
00:32:31,416 --> 00:32:33,625
say, well, it could have been this.

1193
00:32:33,625 --> 00:32:34,916
It could have been a balloon.

1194
00:32:35,041 --> 00:32:36,583
It's like, come on.

1195
00:32:36,583 --> 00:32:39,458
You know, I've got four people train.

1196
00:32:39,458 --> 00:32:40,208
We watched it.

1197
00:32:40,208 --> 00:32:41,125
And I like to think that

1198
00:32:41,125 --> 00:32:42,416
I had decent experience.

1199
00:32:42,416 --> 00:32:43,125
Matter of fact, a lot of

1200
00:32:43,125 --> 00:32:43,875
people are saying stuff.

1201
00:32:43,875 --> 00:32:45,625
I had a lot more experience than them,

1202
00:32:45,625 --> 00:32:47,250
even the military guys,

1203
00:32:47,250 --> 00:32:47,875
although they may have

1204
00:32:47,875 --> 00:32:49,625
more hours as far as tactical employment

1205
00:32:49,625 --> 00:32:50,375
and what I was doing.

1206
00:32:50,375 --> 00:32:52,125
I know I have way more experience than

1207
00:32:52,125 --> 00:32:53,583
they did, than they're

1208
00:32:53,583 --> 00:32:54,833
in unique positions right

1209
00:32:54,833 --> 00:32:55,000
now.

1210
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,041
And one of them just said something.

1211
00:32:57,041 --> 00:33:00,000
So it is what it is.

1212
00:33:00,083 --> 00:33:03,666
You know, time will tell, especially in

1213
00:33:03,666 --> 00:33:04,916
with everything coming

1214
00:33:04,916 --> 00:33:06,708
out right now with, with

1215
00:33:06,708 --> 00:33:08,750
Mr. Gorsh coming out, I have to say his

1216
00:33:08,750 --> 00:33:10,666
name, about, uh-huh.

1217
00:33:10,666 --> 00:33:11,958
Gorsh, I think.

1218
00:33:11,958 --> 00:33:13,333
Gorsh, Gorsh.

1219
00:33:13,333 --> 00:33:13,791
Gorsh.

1220
00:33:13,791 --> 00:33:14,666
He's pretty tricky.

1221
00:33:14,666 --> 00:33:18,500
Coming out basically literally saying the

1222
00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:21,208
same thing that Bob Lazar said in 1989.

1223
00:33:21,208 --> 00:33:23,791
And you know, Bob got chastised for it.

1224
00:33:23,791 --> 00:33:24,708
And this guy's coming out now.

1225
00:33:24,708 --> 00:33:25,750
It's like, because,

1226
00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:26,875
because it's accepted.

1227
00:33:27,250 --> 00:33:31,333
In 1989, if you just said UFO, UAP,

1228
00:33:31,333 --> 00:33:33,208
whatever in Washington

1229
00:33:33,208 --> 00:33:34,125
DC, you'd have been laughed

1230
00:33:34,125 --> 00:33:36,083
out of your seat in Congress.

1231
00:33:36,083 --> 00:33:39,041
Well, now you've got active Congressmen

1232
00:33:39,041 --> 00:33:40,416
and women that are

1233
00:33:40,416 --> 00:33:41,666
pushing policy, you know, and

1234
00:33:41,666 --> 00:33:43,916
I think it was Senator Rubio and Senator

1235
00:33:43,916 --> 00:33:45,125
Gillibrand who are literally

1236
00:33:45,125 --> 00:33:47,000
diametrically opposed politically.

1237
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,125
But on this thing, they're not

1238
00:33:48,125 --> 00:33:49,000
diametrically opposed.

1239
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,541
And I've sat in rooms with both

1240
00:33:51,541 --> 00:33:52,875
Republicans and Democrats who are

1241
00:33:52,875 --> 00:33:54,708
diametrically opposed.

1242
00:33:55,875 --> 00:33:58,000
And, uh, but on this,

1243
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,500
uh, topic, it's bipartisan.

1244
00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:02,541
There is no Republican or Democrat.

1245
00:34:02,541 --> 00:34:04,458
It's like, what are we trying to do?

1246
00:34:04,458 --> 00:34:06,541
And all people want to do is, this is not

1247
00:34:06,541 --> 00:34:10,083
about little green men and what it is.

1248
00:34:10,083 --> 00:34:11,875
If it leads to something like that,

1249
00:34:11,875 --> 00:34:14,500
because we have stuff, so be it.

1250
00:34:14,500 --> 00:34:15,375
To me, it's not important.

1251
00:34:15,375 --> 00:34:18,708
What's important is from our incident

1252
00:34:18,708 --> 00:34:21,916
onward is, um, how do we

1253
00:34:21,916 --> 00:34:23,416
figure out what these are?

1254
00:34:23,416 --> 00:34:24,375
How do they work?

1255
00:34:24,458 --> 00:34:27,166
And we use that technology because if

1256
00:34:27,166 --> 00:34:28,291
anything, our incident

1257
00:34:28,291 --> 00:34:30,625
did, uh, it happened 13 years

1258
00:34:30,625 --> 00:34:33,041
after the fact when the New York times

1259
00:34:33,041 --> 00:34:34,041
article came out because the

1260
00:34:34,041 --> 00:34:39,458
New York times, uh, article

1261
00:34:39,458 --> 00:34:42,166
basically immediately removed the stigma

1262
00:34:42,166 --> 00:34:43,291
because now you've got

1263
00:34:43,291 --> 00:34:45,583
credible sources saying this

1264
00:34:45,583 --> 00:34:46,958
stuff is real.

1265
00:34:46,958 --> 00:34:49,083
Uh, and like ours, I even had people

1266
00:34:49,083 --> 00:34:50,041
thought that we're in my

1267
00:34:50,041 --> 00:34:50,708
squadron thought that we

1268
00:34:50,708 --> 00:34:51,833
had signed non-disclosures.

1269
00:34:51,833 --> 00:34:52,583
We never signed non-disclosures.

1270
00:34:52,958 --> 00:34:54,333
We were never told to shut up the men in

1271
00:34:54,333 --> 00:34:56,208
black never showed up.

1272
00:34:56,208 --> 00:34:58,666
Um, I've talked to other COs who are

1273
00:34:58,666 --> 00:34:59,375
involved of, you know,

1274
00:34:59,375 --> 00:35:00,333
other people are, Oh, we gave

1275
00:35:00,333 --> 00:35:01,250
away all the, we had to

1276
00:35:01,250 --> 00:35:02,500
give away all the black boxes.

1277
00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:05,041
You know, as you know, in the, in the

1278
00:35:05,041 --> 00:35:06,083
classified world, there's a

1279
00:35:06,083 --> 00:35:07,208
custody trail you sign for.

1280
00:35:07,208 --> 00:35:08,541
So you just don't here take

1281
00:35:08,541 --> 00:35:09,625
this here, knock yourself out.

1282
00:35:09,625 --> 00:35:10,333
Yeah, you must be good.

1283
00:35:10,333 --> 00:35:11,000
You're wearing a black suit.

1284
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:12,041
I'm going to give it to you now.

1285
00:35:12,041 --> 00:35:13,750
It doesn't work that way.

1286
00:35:13,750 --> 00:35:17,416
Um, so if anything of that did is it

1287
00:35:17,416 --> 00:35:19,833
allowed us 13 years later

1288
00:35:19,833 --> 00:35:21,916
to do the New York times

1289
00:35:21,916 --> 00:35:22,166
article.

1290
00:35:22,833 --> 00:35:25,750
And that was the, the not, I call it the

1291
00:35:25,750 --> 00:35:27,416
unofficial official report

1292
00:35:27,416 --> 00:35:29,208
that came out that ATIP or

1293
00:35:29,208 --> 00:35:31,041
that, uh, yeah, ATIP did under Lou

1294
00:35:31,041 --> 00:35:33,250
Elizondo that got wrote.

1295
00:35:33,250 --> 00:35:33,583
It's about 20.

1296
00:35:33,583 --> 00:35:35,041
I mean, I know the guy Jay did it.

1297
00:35:35,041 --> 00:35:36,333
Jay's Jay's out talking right now.

1298
00:35:36,333 --> 00:35:37,333
He's Jay Stratton.

1299
00:35:37,333 --> 00:35:37,500
Jay Stratton.

1300
00:35:37,500 --> 00:35:39,375
Jay's out of the, you know, the

1301
00:35:39,375 --> 00:35:40,000
government, he's working

1302
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:41,583
in the private sector now.

1303
00:35:41,583 --> 00:35:42,875
He actually is the one that called me on

1304
00:35:42,875 --> 00:35:45,875
the phone back in 2009

1305
00:35:45,875 --> 00:35:46,875
to get that ball rolling.

1306
00:35:46,875 --> 00:35:48,500
So there's a, there's a bunch of these

1307
00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:49,125
pieces, you know, you

1308
00:35:49,125 --> 00:35:50,250
think, wow, you think it would

1309
00:35:50,250 --> 00:35:51,458
have been a nice, if it happened faster.

1310
00:35:51,541 --> 00:35:53,000
You might had access to data, but then

1311
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:53,625
I'll turn around and

1312
00:35:53,625 --> 00:35:54,500
say, I think there's a lot

1313
00:35:54,500 --> 00:35:55,958
more data now.

1314
00:35:55,958 --> 00:35:57,666
You know, I said this to the senators

1315
00:35:57,666 --> 00:35:58,708
like for the East coast

1316
00:35:58,708 --> 00:35:59,666
stuff that was going on

1317
00:35:59,666 --> 00:36:01,125
when, when you were on the flight with

1318
00:36:01,125 --> 00:36:03,333
the gimbal video, um,

1319
00:36:03,333 --> 00:36:04,583
you know, what do you guys

1320
00:36:04,583 --> 00:36:04,791
call it?

1321
00:36:04,791 --> 00:36:06,375
Giant killer is giant killer.

1322
00:36:06,375 --> 00:36:07,541
But you know, why isn't someone going to

1323
00:36:07,541 --> 00:36:08,208
giant killer, which is

1324
00:36:08,208 --> 00:36:09,250
the coastal defense radar

1325
00:36:09,250 --> 00:36:10,208
is going, where's the data?

1326
00:36:10,208 --> 00:36:11,833
I mean, they probably have that, you

1327
00:36:11,833 --> 00:36:12,583
know, they might not have

1328
00:36:12,583 --> 00:36:14,000
it from 2015 because you

1329
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,666
know, over time things get archived and

1330
00:36:15,666 --> 00:36:17,416
put away, but you know,

1331
00:36:17,416 --> 00:36:18,208
there's other stuff going

1332
00:36:18,208 --> 00:36:18,375
on.

1333
00:36:19,125 --> 00:36:19,291
And you know, there's a lot of countries

1334
00:36:19,291 --> 00:36:20,541
where you go, Hey, I just

1335
00:36:20,541 --> 00:36:21,541
saw an object on the radar,

1336
00:36:21,541 --> 00:36:23,166
go come down and go all the way to the

1337
00:36:23,166 --> 00:36:23,708
right and then

1338
00:36:23,708 --> 00:36:24,750
reverse and go to the left.

1339
00:36:24,750 --> 00:36:28,208
And you know, we do track space, you

1340
00:36:28,208 --> 00:36:29,333
know, NASA, you got to do it.

1341
00:36:29,333 --> 00:36:30,750
They do it for the space station alone,

1342
00:36:30,750 --> 00:36:31,500
just so objects, you

1343
00:36:31,500 --> 00:36:32,583
know, so they can do avoidance

1344
00:36:32,583 --> 00:36:33,125
maneuvers because there's

1345
00:36:33,125 --> 00:36:34,750
so much stuff up there now.

1346
00:36:34,750 --> 00:36:36,083
You know, it wasn't, it's not, this isn't

1347
00:36:36,083 --> 00:36:36,708
the sixties where it

1348
00:36:36,708 --> 00:36:38,791
was the Russians and us.

1349
00:36:38,791 --> 00:36:40,500
Now there's, I forget what they say, 60

1350
00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:41,125
different countries

1351
00:36:41,125 --> 00:36:44,125
have got stuff in space.

1352
00:36:44,125 --> 00:36:46,875
So you got to track all that junk that's

1353
00:36:46,875 --> 00:36:47,833
up there flying around.

1354
00:36:48,458 --> 00:36:49,833
Well, when you're tracking that junk, if

1355
00:36:49,833 --> 00:36:50,458
there's stuff up there,

1356
00:36:50,458 --> 00:36:51,458
you're going to see weird

1357
00:36:51,458 --> 00:36:51,958
stuff.

1358
00:36:51,958 --> 00:36:52,791
You know, our stuff all

1359
00:36:52,791 --> 00:36:54,291
goes in the same direction.

1360
00:36:54,291 --> 00:36:55,083
Once we get it in

1361
00:36:55,083 --> 00:36:56,000
orbit, it goes like this.

1362
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:56,875
It goes around.

1363
00:36:56,875 --> 00:36:58,041
That's how it works.

1364
00:36:58,041 --> 00:37:00,083
You know, if it's geo, it's out far

1365
00:37:00,083 --> 00:37:00,916
enough to where it's

1366
00:37:00,916 --> 00:37:02,291
velocity equals the rotational

1367
00:37:02,291 --> 00:37:02,791
velocity of the earth.

1368
00:37:02,791 --> 00:37:03,708
And it stays in the same

1369
00:37:03,708 --> 00:37:04,500
spot roughly over the earth.

1370
00:37:04,500 --> 00:37:05,041
It's not hard.

1371
00:37:05,041 --> 00:37:06,833
You can, you can pick up a high school

1372
00:37:06,833 --> 00:37:08,833
physics book and figure that stuff out.

1373
00:37:08,833 --> 00:37:10,291
But when you see stuff going the opposite

1374
00:37:10,291 --> 00:37:10,916
direction and doing

1375
00:37:10,916 --> 00:37:12,541
stuff that we don't have

1376
00:37:12,541 --> 00:37:15,500
the technology to do right now, then you

1377
00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:17,000
know, you ought to take

1378
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:17,916
the time to look at it.

1379
00:37:18,250 --> 00:37:19,041
Personally, I'm like,

1380
00:37:19,041 --> 00:37:20,250
it's a small budget.

1381
00:37:20,250 --> 00:37:21,500
The original eight tip budget was what,

1382
00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:23,083
$22 million over four

1383
00:37:23,083 --> 00:37:24,958
years or five years.

1384
00:37:24,958 --> 00:37:27,541
You know, if it's five years, it's 4.4

1385
00:37:27,541 --> 00:37:29,750
million dollars, which in

1386
00:37:29,750 --> 00:37:31,041
the big picture of thing

1387
00:37:31,041 --> 00:37:32,500
is nothing in the government.

1388
00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:34,375
It's not even in the rounding air.

1389
00:37:34,375 --> 00:37:35,250
I mean, that's like

1390
00:37:35,250 --> 00:37:36,833
lunch money for your kids.

1391
00:37:36,833 --> 00:37:37,333
Yeah.

1392
00:37:37,333 --> 00:37:39,958
I've been seeing some interesting range

1393
00:37:39,958 --> 00:37:41,625
file reports on some FOIA requests.

1394
00:37:41,625 --> 00:37:45,375
Of course, FOIA is only so useful.

1395
00:37:45,500 --> 00:37:47,083
It's for those that are not aware,

1396
00:37:47,083 --> 00:37:48,041
they're essentially

1397
00:37:48,041 --> 00:37:50,375
requests where if you have certain

1398
00:37:50,375 --> 00:37:52,750
information theoretically by law, you're

1399
00:37:52,750 --> 00:37:54,458
allowed to ask the

1400
00:37:54,458 --> 00:37:55,666
government for that information

1401
00:37:55,666 --> 00:37:57,500
since as a taxpayer,

1402
00:37:57,500 --> 00:37:59,333
that is your information.

1403
00:37:59,333 --> 00:38:01,041
You have to have enough information about

1404
00:38:01,041 --> 00:38:02,125
what you're looking for

1405
00:38:02,125 --> 00:38:03,250
to allow that government

1406
00:38:03,250 --> 00:38:04,666
employee to actually go find it.

1407
00:38:04,666 --> 00:38:06,791
And of course that and therefore is going

1408
00:38:06,791 --> 00:38:07,458
to be information

1409
00:38:07,458 --> 00:38:09,041
that's communicated by the

1410
00:38:09,041 --> 00:38:10,416
government.

1411
00:38:10,416 --> 00:38:12,541
What's your opinion of foibles?

1412
00:38:12,541 --> 00:38:13,541
So here's, here's,

1413
00:38:13,541 --> 00:38:14,958
here's my opinion on FOIA.

1414
00:38:15,208 --> 00:38:16,791
So a lot of times it works really well.

1415
00:38:16,791 --> 00:38:18,208
You send in the request, you know exactly

1416
00:38:18,208 --> 00:38:18,666
where it's at, you

1417
00:38:18,666 --> 00:38:20,125
know who to send it to,

1418
00:38:20,125 --> 00:38:21,291
you can get that information.

1419
00:38:21,291 --> 00:38:23,250
So if you wanted information like from

1420
00:38:23,250 --> 00:38:24,500
the Supreme Court, you

1421
00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:25,083
know, people know where

1422
00:38:25,083 --> 00:38:25,750
to go get stuff.

1423
00:38:25,750 --> 00:38:30,333
If you wanted information from, you know,

1424
00:38:30,333 --> 00:38:31,166
whatever organization

1425
00:38:31,166 --> 00:38:32,875
is that's releasable,

1426
00:38:32,875 --> 00:38:33,625
you go to that.

1427
00:38:33,625 --> 00:38:36,083
But the problem is, is people go, well, I

1428
00:38:36,083 --> 00:38:38,166
know that this happened.

1429
00:38:38,166 --> 00:38:39,375
So I got called about a

1430
00:38:39,375 --> 00:38:42,333
FOIA request for our incident.

1431
00:38:43,166 --> 00:38:45,583
And, and the, this is like, while you're

1432
00:38:45,583 --> 00:38:48,250
in the, this was a 2000

1433
00:38:48,250 --> 00:38:50,875
about 20 2016 was before

1434
00:38:50,875 --> 00:38:53,500
the New York Times article came out.

1435
00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:55,041
So I was living up in New England.

1436
00:38:55,041 --> 00:38:57,041
So I got a phone call

1437
00:38:57,041 --> 00:38:59,041
from a Navy commander.

1438
00:38:59,041 --> 00:39:00,666
She was down at the Pentagon.

1439
00:39:00,666 --> 00:39:01,875
She said is this ground or frame?

1440
00:39:01,875 --> 00:39:03,041
I said it is.

1441
00:39:03,041 --> 00:39:05,125
She said, Hey, we have a FOIA request

1442
00:39:05,125 --> 00:39:09,250
about your incident in 2004.

1443
00:39:09,250 --> 00:39:11,125
Do you know of any official stuff?

1444
00:39:11,250 --> 00:39:13,125
I said official.

1445
00:39:13,125 --> 00:39:13,833
She said, yes.

1446
00:39:13,833 --> 00:39:15,416
I said, I know of no official stuff

1447
00:39:15,416 --> 00:39:16,500
because I didn't know of

1448
00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:18,541
any official documentation

1449
00:39:18,541 --> 00:39:19,250
on it.

1450
00:39:19,250 --> 00:39:20,625
Now I knew there was an unofficial

1451
00:39:20,625 --> 00:39:23,583
official report that was done by ATIP.

1452
00:39:23,583 --> 00:39:25,375
But that's not for me to release.

1453
00:39:25,375 --> 00:39:26,500
And I don't know if it's official.

1454
00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:28,750
And actually the irony in the whole thing

1455
00:39:28,750 --> 00:39:30,708
is the people, the 20

1456
00:39:30,708 --> 00:39:31,333
people in the original

1457
00:39:31,333 --> 00:39:32,416
ATIP organization at

1458
00:39:32,416 --> 00:39:35,208
LuRAN were FOIA exempt.

1459
00:39:35,208 --> 00:39:36,166
So their works were

1460
00:39:36,166 --> 00:39:37,833
not releasable by FOIA.

1461
00:39:38,291 --> 00:39:40,750
The other one is you send stuff randomly

1462
00:39:40,750 --> 00:39:41,708
and you go, Hey, I need this.

1463
00:39:41,708 --> 00:39:44,291
And it ends up on the desk of some poor

1464
00:39:44,291 --> 00:39:46,083
person at the Pentagon

1465
00:39:46,083 --> 00:39:47,708
that's miserable sitting in

1466
00:39:47,708 --> 00:39:49,291
a cubicle in the five

1467
00:39:49,291 --> 00:39:52,083
sided concrete monstrosity.

1468
00:39:52,083 --> 00:39:53,583
And then it's like, how much time am I

1469
00:39:53,583 --> 00:39:55,458
going to put to answer this FOIA request?

1470
00:39:55,458 --> 00:39:56,458
He's going to do his search.

1471
00:39:56,458 --> 00:39:58,833
He's going to look or she, that person is

1472
00:39:58,833 --> 00:40:00,541
going to look for whatever it is.

1473
00:40:00,541 --> 00:40:02,375
And in a certain amount of time, when

1474
00:40:02,375 --> 00:40:03,166
it's done, it's like,

1475
00:40:03,166 --> 00:40:04,208
I didn't find anything.

1476
00:40:04,208 --> 00:40:06,166
There's nothing to find.

1477
00:40:06,625 --> 00:40:08,291
If you know, there's the obvious, like, I

1478
00:40:08,291 --> 00:40:10,083
know that this report

1479
00:40:10,083 --> 00:40:11,083
exists, like the Durham

1480
00:40:11,083 --> 00:40:11,875
report that just came out.

1481
00:40:11,875 --> 00:40:14,250
I know that I want to read that report

1482
00:40:14,250 --> 00:40:15,500
and you can request that report.

1483
00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:15,916
That's fine.

1484
00:40:15,916 --> 00:40:17,125
You know, it's there.

1485
00:40:17,125 --> 00:40:18,416
But if you're requesting something that

1486
00:40:18,416 --> 00:40:19,125
you don't really know

1487
00:40:19,125 --> 00:40:21,083
the existence of, and then

1488
00:40:21,083 --> 00:40:25,291
you get nothing back, you go, Hmm, you

1489
00:40:25,291 --> 00:40:26,541
know, the government's in a coverup.

1490
00:40:26,541 --> 00:40:27,000
I don't think the

1491
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,250
government's in a coverup.

1492
00:40:28,250 --> 00:40:30,000
I just think the poor person that had to

1493
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:30,875
go look for all that

1494
00:40:30,875 --> 00:40:32,208
stuff for you and do your

1495
00:40:32,208 --> 00:40:34,125
basic research papers so you can have

1496
00:40:34,125 --> 00:40:35,416
this put enough time

1497
00:40:35,416 --> 00:40:36,250
in it's if you know how

1498
00:40:36,583 --> 00:40:38,375
car insurance works, when you crash your

1499
00:40:38,375 --> 00:40:39,166
car, you know, and your

1500
00:40:39,166 --> 00:40:40,833
estimator comes out and

1501
00:40:40,833 --> 00:40:41,458
they look at your car.

1502
00:40:41,458 --> 00:40:42,416
So let's say you had a red car.

1503
00:40:42,416 --> 00:40:44,166
Remember, red cars are really hard to

1504
00:40:44,166 --> 00:40:45,583
match paint because they fade.

1505
00:40:45,583 --> 00:40:46,208
Okay.

1506
00:40:46,208 --> 00:40:46,541
Right.

1507
00:40:46,541 --> 00:40:48,125
So it's not as bad now because we have

1508
00:40:48,125 --> 00:40:48,958
the clear coats and stuff,

1509
00:40:48,958 --> 00:40:49,791
but in like the seventies

1510
00:40:49,791 --> 00:40:51,500
and eighties cars faded.

1511
00:40:51,500 --> 00:40:53,416
So red, you go, Hey, it was this red.

1512
00:40:53,416 --> 00:40:54,166
It was guards red.

1513
00:40:54,166 --> 00:40:54,791
I had a 911.

1514
00:40:54,791 --> 00:40:56,166
It was guards red and it,

1515
00:40:56,166 --> 00:40:57,000
but it's eight years old.

1516
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:58,375
And then you go try and match the guards

1517
00:40:58,375 --> 00:40:59,416
red with the original paint.

1518
00:40:59,416 --> 00:41:00,750
It's just like open up an older car that

1519
00:41:00,750 --> 00:41:01,458
doesn't have clear coat

1520
00:41:01,458 --> 00:41:02,333
on it and look at the paint

1521
00:41:02,333 --> 00:41:03,375
inside the door jams and look at the

1522
00:41:03,375 --> 00:41:04,125
paint on the outside.

1523
00:41:04,375 --> 00:41:05,541
They're usually two different colors

1524
00:41:05,541 --> 00:41:07,500
because the sun and UV.

1525
00:41:07,500 --> 00:41:08,875
So when you would go, when you're at your

1526
00:41:08,875 --> 00:41:09,708
car, when they do the

1527
00:41:09,708 --> 00:41:10,125
estimate, they go, it's

1528
00:41:10,125 --> 00:41:10,750
going to take two

1529
00:41:10,750 --> 00:41:12,083
hours to paint this car.

1530
00:41:12,083 --> 00:41:13,458
That two hours is everything that

1531
00:41:13,458 --> 00:41:14,750
includes matching your paint.

1532
00:41:14,750 --> 00:41:16,250
So the guy's mixing, you know, add the

1533
00:41:16,250 --> 00:41:17,125
whites and blacks into the

1534
00:41:17,125 --> 00:41:18,000
red to get it to the right

1535
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:18,125
shade.

1536
00:41:18,125 --> 00:41:19,666
He's doing the best he can.

1537
00:41:19,666 --> 00:41:20,333
And it's times up.

1538
00:41:20,333 --> 00:41:21,791
I got to paint the car

1539
00:41:21,791 --> 00:41:22,708
because time is money.

1540
00:41:22,708 --> 00:41:24,166
It's kind of FOIA requests that way.

1541
00:41:24,166 --> 00:41:25,291
Look, I got so much time

1542
00:41:25,291 --> 00:41:26,083
to get you what you want.

1543
00:41:26,083 --> 00:41:27,250
If I don't get it done or it doesn't

1544
00:41:27,250 --> 00:41:28,208
match, that's not my problem.

1545
00:41:28,208 --> 00:41:28,833
You got what it is.

1546
00:41:28,833 --> 00:41:30,916
It is what is move on, you know, put

1547
00:41:30,916 --> 00:41:31,666
another FOIA request,

1548
00:41:31,666 --> 00:41:32,416
send it to me again.

1549
00:41:32,541 --> 00:41:34,125
I'll just, I'll know you by name and I'll

1550
00:41:34,125 --> 00:41:35,041
make sure that I don't

1551
00:41:35,041 --> 00:41:36,666
do my job because you're

1552
00:41:36,666 --> 00:41:37,041
painful.

1553
00:41:37,041 --> 00:41:38,750
So perhaps, you know, of limited value,

1554
00:41:38,750 --> 00:41:40,625
but you can strike goals

1555
00:41:40,625 --> 00:41:41,500
on occasion if you have

1556
00:41:41,500 --> 00:41:42,791
enough information, perhaps.

1557
00:41:42,791 --> 00:41:43,666
Very much so.

1558
00:41:43,666 --> 00:41:45,250
So when you, I was talking to government

1559
00:41:45,250 --> 00:41:47,583
officials about, because

1560
00:41:47,583 --> 00:41:48,666
they said, where would, where

1561
00:41:48,666 --> 00:41:50,083
would this be?

1562
00:41:50,083 --> 00:41:51,291
This is many people.

1563
00:41:51,291 --> 00:41:52,416
I've got phone calls

1564
00:41:52,416 --> 00:41:53,875
from, from Congressman.

1565
00:41:53,875 --> 00:41:55,958
I said, well, you got nowhere to look.

1566
00:41:55,958 --> 00:41:57,208
No one's going to volunteer.

1567
00:41:57,208 --> 00:41:58,250
No one's going to wave their

1568
00:41:58,250 --> 00:42:01,125
flag and say, Hey, call me.

1569
00:42:01,125 --> 00:42:02,083
They're not going to do it.

1570
00:42:02,208 --> 00:42:04,000
They all have jobs.

1571
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:04,958
So you have to know

1572
00:42:04,958 --> 00:42:06,208
exactly where to look.

1573
00:42:06,208 --> 00:42:08,833
Like you need to go, Hey, I know that

1574
00:42:13,125 --> 00:42:10,375
this specific

1575
00:42:13,125 --> 00:42:15,458
entity, it, I know for a

1576
00:42:15,458 --> 00:42:16,458
fact they have information.

1577
00:42:16,458 --> 00:42:18,250
It's been corroborated.

1578
00:42:18,250 --> 00:42:19,125
You need to go to them.

1579
00:42:19,125 --> 00:42:20,958
You know, by law, at least my

1580
00:42:20,958 --> 00:42:21,708
understanding of the law,

1581
00:42:21,708 --> 00:42:22,791
you know, the elected officials

1582
00:42:22,791 --> 00:42:24,000
have a lot of power.

1583
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,791
It's the whole reason that our government

1584
00:42:25,791 --> 00:42:26,458
succeeds is, you know,

1585
00:42:26,458 --> 00:42:27,458
it's by the people for

1586
00:42:27,458 --> 00:42:28,166
the people.

1587
00:42:28,583 --> 00:42:32,000
So if you have entities, i.e. some

1588
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:32,666
government, you know, I

1589
00:42:32,666 --> 00:42:33,958
don't care if name the agency

1590
00:42:33,958 --> 00:42:37,625
or, you know, DOD, CIA, NSA, you name it.

1591
00:42:37,625 --> 00:42:39,250
If they're willful, if you go in and know

1592
00:42:39,250 --> 00:42:40,041
exactly where to look

1593
00:42:40,041 --> 00:42:41,083
and I like, you're that

1594
00:42:41,083 --> 00:42:42,791
person and I go to you, I go, I know you

1595
00:42:42,791 --> 00:42:43,958
have this show it to

1596
00:42:43,958 --> 00:42:46,083
me and you play stupid.

1597
00:42:46,083 --> 00:42:46,791
Like you don't know where

1598
00:42:46,791 --> 00:42:48,125
it's at and this and that.

1599
00:42:48,125 --> 00:42:49,750
Then I think there's repercussions.

1600
00:42:49,750 --> 00:42:50,375
I think there's

1601
00:42:50,375 --> 00:42:52,000
repercussions that should be paid.

1602
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,083
But I also think that the elected

1603
00:42:54,083 --> 00:42:54,916
officials who go after

1604
00:42:54,916 --> 00:42:56,333
this stuff need to handle it

1605
00:42:56,916 --> 00:43:01,458
with the right level of sensitivity.

1606
00:43:01,458 --> 00:43:04,958
Like you just can't go, oh, well, you

1607
00:43:04,958 --> 00:43:06,333
know, this agency has

1608
00:43:06,333 --> 00:43:08,083
this super secret, I'll just

1609
00:43:08,083 --> 00:43:11,250
say they, a government agency puts a

1610
00:43:11,250 --> 00:43:12,333
super secret satellite

1611
00:43:12,333 --> 00:43:13,500
up that does all kinds of

1612
00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:14,541
cool stuff.

1613
00:43:14,541 --> 00:43:16,291
It's technology that no one else has and

1614
00:43:16,291 --> 00:43:19,333
we track UFOs with it.

1615
00:43:19,333 --> 00:43:20,375
You're not going to give them the

1616
00:43:20,375 --> 00:43:21,125
pictures and tell them

1617
00:43:21,125 --> 00:43:22,416
where it came from because you

1618
00:43:22,416 --> 00:43:24,208
don't want to compromise the technology

1619
00:43:24,208 --> 00:43:25,291
that allowed you to get that.

1620
00:43:25,916 --> 00:43:26,125
Right?

1621
00:43:26,125 --> 00:43:27,083
So that stuff is the

1622
00:43:27,083 --> 00:43:28,541
stuff that's protected.

1623
00:43:28,541 --> 00:43:30,666
But if you go, hey, I know there's some

1624
00:43:30,666 --> 00:43:31,875
East Coast guys that took

1625
00:43:31,875 --> 00:43:33,416
pictures of a thing with

1626
00:43:33,416 --> 00:43:34,000
their cell phones or

1627
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,333
they're flying off the vacay.

1628
00:43:36,333 --> 00:43:37,541
That's a different story.

1629
00:43:37,541 --> 00:43:39,375
You know, for one, it's an iPhone.

1630
00:43:39,375 --> 00:43:42,041
Number two, it's in US airspace.

1631
00:43:42,041 --> 00:43:44,250
You know, the only thing that you could

1632
00:43:44,250 --> 00:43:45,916
say is, well, it was a government entity.

1633
00:43:45,916 --> 00:43:47,166
I go as a government entity out there

1634
00:43:47,166 --> 00:43:48,375
doing training, but the

1635
00:43:48,375 --> 00:43:49,208
training was not to go take

1636
00:43:49,208 --> 00:43:50,000
the picture.

1637
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:51,333
The guy just looked out, saw something,

1638
00:43:51,333 --> 00:43:52,458
pulled his, zoned his

1639
00:43:52,458 --> 00:43:53,458
pocket, pulled his iPhone out,

1640
00:43:53,458 --> 00:43:55,250
took a few pictures and then moved on.

1641
00:43:55,375 --> 00:43:58,791
I go, you know, that's not by definition

1642
00:43:58,791 --> 00:44:02,333
meets a classification level at all.

1643
00:44:02,333 --> 00:44:06,083
No, if I went to another country as an

1644
00:44:06,083 --> 00:44:08,166
undercover spy and I took

1645
00:44:08,166 --> 00:44:09,666
pictures of a, you know, maybe

1646
00:44:09,666 --> 00:44:12,583
they had a, I don't know, a new airplane,

1647
00:44:12,583 --> 00:44:15,166
you know, they had the, what's the X, the

1648
00:44:15,166 --> 00:44:18,041
MiG 31 from Firefox with Clint Eastwood.

1649
00:44:18,041 --> 00:44:19,583
You know, I went there and I took out my

1650
00:44:19,583 --> 00:44:20,333
camera and I took

1651
00:44:20,333 --> 00:44:21,625
pictures of it through the fence

1652
00:44:21,625 --> 00:44:22,250
line.

1653
00:44:22,250 --> 00:44:24,000
That's a different story.

1654
00:44:25,458 --> 00:44:26,958
That is protected because one, you don't

1655
00:44:26,958 --> 00:44:28,000
want them to know where

1656
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:28,916
the picture came from because

1657
00:44:28,916 --> 00:44:30,125
then they can usually smart enough to

1658
00:44:30,125 --> 00:44:30,875
track who's in the area

1659
00:44:30,875 --> 00:44:31,916
at the time and they'll

1660
00:44:31,916 --> 00:44:33,333
figure out who it was.

1661
00:44:33,333 --> 00:44:35,541
But it's just how we classify.

1662
00:44:35,541 --> 00:44:37,875
And I think the problem with, especially

1663
00:44:37,875 --> 00:44:40,958
the UFO stuff is it's

1664
00:44:40,958 --> 00:44:42,375
been put behind this big

1665
00:44:42,375 --> 00:44:45,291
vault doors for so long that there's a

1666
00:44:45,291 --> 00:44:46,500
fear to talk about it.

1667
00:44:46,500 --> 00:44:48,875
You know, some services are better than

1668
00:44:48,875 --> 00:44:49,666
other, organizations

1669
00:44:49,666 --> 00:44:50,166
are better than others.

1670
00:44:50,666 --> 00:44:53,166
Some, like, you know, I'll bash on them,

1671
00:44:53,166 --> 00:44:54,416
but the whole Project

1672
00:44:54,416 --> 00:44:55,958
Blue Book stuff was, you

1673
00:44:55,958 --> 00:44:59,125
know, at first it was disprove, you know,

1674
00:44:59,125 --> 00:45:00,791
that it was swamp gas.

1675
00:45:00,791 --> 00:45:03,208
The other one was if you can't, you just

1676
00:45:03,208 --> 00:45:04,375
discredit the individual

1677
00:45:04,375 --> 00:45:06,625
and you make it go away.

1678
00:45:06,625 --> 00:45:09,250
Knowing deep down, you know, and Dr.

1679
00:45:09,250 --> 00:45:10,500
Heineck said that, you

1680
00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:12,375
know, later that, yeah, there

1681
00:45:12,375 --> 00:45:13,916
was stuff that I just couldn't say and I

1682
00:45:13,916 --> 00:45:15,916
made it up and I think he regretted it.

1683
00:45:15,916 --> 00:45:17,041
I think it was the same thing with the

1684
00:45:17,041 --> 00:45:18,000
Roswell guy on his

1685
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:18,833
deathbed came out and said all

1686
00:45:19,083 --> 00:45:19,916
those pictures with the

1687
00:45:19,916 --> 00:45:21,541
Weather Blo were staged.

1688
00:45:21,541 --> 00:45:22,958
Let me ask you a question.

1689
00:45:22,958 --> 00:45:24,833
Moving the conversation forward, do you

1690
00:45:24,833 --> 00:45:26,583
think, you know, I would

1691
00:45:26,583 --> 00:45:27,500
classify the conversation

1692
00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:28,750
we've been having for the past few

1693
00:45:28,750 --> 00:45:30,958
minutes as understanding

1694
00:45:30,958 --> 00:45:33,000
perhaps some of the disclosure

1695
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,208
process of existing data.

1696
00:45:35,208 --> 00:45:38,291
I'd say that's, you know, one hand.

1697
00:45:38,291 --> 00:45:40,000
On the other hand, you know, you could

1698
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:41,833
perhaps call it discovery,

1699
00:45:41,833 --> 00:45:42,958
which is perhaps the open

1700
00:45:43,375 --> 00:45:46,375
source or civilian research

1701
00:45:46,375 --> 00:45:49,166
efforts to look into this.

1702
00:45:49,166 --> 00:45:50,875
Where do you see those two kind of

1703
00:45:50,875 --> 00:45:52,708
efforts playing going forward?

1704
00:45:52,708 --> 00:45:54,833
Do we think that, you know, disclosure

1705
00:45:54,833 --> 00:45:55,833
through the government is

1706
00:45:55,833 --> 00:45:57,375
perhaps the best methodology

1707
00:45:57,375 --> 00:45:59,541
to get to the truth or do we think that

1708
00:45:59,541 --> 00:46:00,625
open source efforts on

1709
00:46:00,625 --> 00:46:02,083
the outside are perhaps

1710
00:46:02,083 --> 00:46:03,916
the best or maybe both?

1711
00:46:03,916 --> 00:46:05,333
It's both to an extent.

1712
00:46:05,333 --> 00:46:07,125
Here's why I say that.

1713
00:46:08,250 --> 00:46:10,500
We know because we have a very open

1714
00:46:10,500 --> 00:46:11,875
society, contrary to what

1715
00:46:11,875 --> 00:46:14,375
you may see on social media

1716
00:46:14,375 --> 00:46:15,708
and people who want to bash

1717
00:46:15,708 --> 00:46:18,958
the United States of America.

1718
00:46:18,958 --> 00:46:20,541
And I'll say it, this is still the

1719
00:46:20,541 --> 00:46:21,458
greatest country in the world.

1720
00:46:21,458 --> 00:46:22,875
It provides the best opportunity.

1721
00:46:22,875 --> 00:46:24,291
And I can give you living examples of

1722
00:46:24,291 --> 00:46:24,583
people who have

1723
00:46:24,583 --> 00:46:26,500
immigrated here and literally made

1724
00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:27,708
a life for themselves that they would

1725
00:46:27,708 --> 00:46:29,000
have never had in their home country.

1726
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,416
It's really if you want to work and you

1727
00:46:30,416 --> 00:46:31,208
want to put the effort

1728
00:46:31,208 --> 00:46:33,875
into it, you can succeed.

1729
00:46:33,875 --> 00:46:35,500
Because that and because of that open

1730
00:46:35,500 --> 00:46:36,125
society that we have that

1731
00:46:36,125 --> 00:46:36,916
we don't put people in a

1732
00:46:37,291 --> 00:46:40,541
box and we afford that opportunity, it

1733
00:46:40,541 --> 00:46:42,500
also can be a negative,

1734
00:46:42,500 --> 00:46:44,708
i.e. our adversaries are

1735
00:46:44,708 --> 00:46:46,375
really good at sending people into our

1736
00:46:46,375 --> 00:46:48,625
academic institutions to get

1737
00:46:48,625 --> 00:46:51,291
jobs over here that basically

1738
00:46:51,291 --> 00:46:52,625
steal technology.

1739
00:46:52,625 --> 00:46:54,458
I'm not talking military secrets,

1740
00:46:54,458 --> 00:46:56,250
although that does happen.

1741
00:46:56,250 --> 00:46:57,916
I'm talking just, you know, you go work

1742
00:46:57,916 --> 00:46:59,208
at Dell Computer or you

1743
00:46:59,208 --> 00:47:01,500
work at Industrial Secrets

1744
00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:02,541
that you take it over.

1745
00:47:02,541 --> 00:47:03,708
I mean, if you look right now, you know,

1746
00:47:03,708 --> 00:47:04,708
one of China's big

1747
00:47:04,708 --> 00:47:05,416
headaches with what we're doing

1748
00:47:05,583 --> 00:47:07,166
right now is, you know, we're not

1749
00:47:07,166 --> 00:47:09,208
exporting a bunch of technology.

1750
00:47:09,208 --> 00:47:10,625
Well, if we don't export the technology,

1751
00:47:10,625 --> 00:47:12,833
it's harder for them to get.

1752
00:47:12,833 --> 00:47:13,375
Right.

1753
00:47:13,375 --> 00:47:16,958
And, you know, there's like, I will say,

1754
00:47:16,958 --> 00:47:19,708
I'm not creative at all.

1755
00:47:19,708 --> 00:47:21,708
I can copy really well.

1756
00:47:21,708 --> 00:47:23,583
It's the creative minds that you need to

1757
00:47:23,583 --> 00:47:24,583
protect that those are

1758
00:47:24,583 --> 00:47:25,916
the ones that invent the new

1759
00:47:25,916 --> 00:47:26,041
stuff.

1760
00:47:26,041 --> 00:47:27,791
Those are the ones that, you know, these

1761
00:47:27,791 --> 00:47:28,625
high end universities

1762
00:47:28,625 --> 00:47:30,000
that are doing the math that

1763
00:47:30,583 --> 00:47:33,541
even the people that, you know, that I've

1764
00:47:33,541 --> 00:47:34,375
worked with and work

1765
00:47:34,375 --> 00:47:36,375
for me, their PhDs, very,

1766
00:47:36,375 --> 00:47:38,000
very smart, but they're still not the

1767
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:39,375
ones coming up with most

1768
00:47:39,375 --> 00:47:40,333
of them are not the ones

1769
00:47:40,333 --> 00:47:41,041
creating new math.

1770
00:47:41,041 --> 00:47:42,333
You know, they're not Einstein who's

1771
00:47:42,333 --> 00:47:43,125
living and going, you

1772
00:47:43,125 --> 00:47:44,541
know, I'm gonna go completely

1773
00:47:44,541 --> 00:47:46,750
off and come up with new theories.

1774
00:47:46,750 --> 00:47:48,708
You know, that is something that, you

1775
00:47:48,708 --> 00:47:49,833
know, I'm not saying

1776
00:47:49,833 --> 00:47:51,041
they're all the best, but some

1777
00:47:51,041 --> 00:47:53,041
of the best institutions to do that and

1778
00:47:53,041 --> 00:47:53,958
the opportunities to

1779
00:47:53,958 --> 00:47:55,000
do that based on funding

1780
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:55,458
everything else are

1781
00:47:55,458 --> 00:47:56,875
here in the United States.

1782
00:47:56,875 --> 00:47:58,708
We need to protect that.

1783
00:47:58,708 --> 00:47:59,666
So that's really important.

1784
00:47:59,875 --> 00:48:02,041
Remember when you go, hey, let's say, for

1785
00:48:02,041 --> 00:48:03,958
example, we caught up, we

1786
00:48:03,958 --> 00:48:05,333
found an alien spaceship

1787
00:48:05,333 --> 00:48:07,750
lands in my front yard, right?

1788
00:48:07,750 --> 00:48:09,291
But it gets covered up real quick and we

1789
00:48:09,291 --> 00:48:10,291
grab the technology, it

1790
00:48:10,291 --> 00:48:11,458
gets put on a flatbed truck

1791
00:48:11,458 --> 00:48:13,000
and away it goes.

1792
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:14,375
Don't come to my house and start looking

1793
00:48:14,375 --> 00:48:15,458
for the footprints in the yard.

1794
00:48:15,458 --> 00:48:15,916
It's not there.

1795
00:48:15,916 --> 00:48:17,000
I'm making this up.

1796
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,166
But if that happens, now we know that the

1797
00:48:20,166 --> 00:48:20,750
government has something.

1798
00:48:20,750 --> 00:48:22,125
So now the government has to figure out,

1799
00:48:22,125 --> 00:48:23,125
all right, this is

1800
00:48:23,125 --> 00:48:24,541
technology that we don't understand.

1801
00:48:24,541 --> 00:48:26,416
So now we've got to reverse engineer.

1802
00:48:26,541 --> 00:48:28,833
And I'm a big proponent of saying, hey,

1803
00:48:28,833 --> 00:48:30,125
there's a lot of really

1804
00:48:30,125 --> 00:48:31,583
smart people that aren't tied

1805
00:48:31,583 --> 00:48:33,000
to the United States government that may

1806
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:34,125
be able to solve the problem.

1807
00:48:34,125 --> 00:48:36,958
But now you're into that catch-22 of, do

1808
00:48:36,958 --> 00:48:37,750
I pull some of these

1809
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:39,000
other people out that maybe

1810
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:40,958
can't qualify because they have so many

1811
00:48:40,958 --> 00:48:41,958
contacts in other places

1812
00:48:41,958 --> 00:48:43,500
that they would push that,

1813
00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:44,625
they would let it out?

1814
00:48:44,625 --> 00:48:46,958
They would, you know, because if you have

1815
00:48:46,958 --> 00:48:50,666
a technology, it's like nuclear.

1816
00:48:50,666 --> 00:48:52,666
You know, when we invented the bomb, you

1817
00:48:52,666 --> 00:48:53,500
know, the Manhattan

1818
00:48:53,500 --> 00:48:54,166
Project, we're the first ones

1819
00:48:54,458 --> 00:48:56,583
to detonate the bomb and we're the only

1820
00:48:56,583 --> 00:48:58,500
country to ever use it in wartime.

1821
00:48:58,500 --> 00:48:59,916
And people have a fit about that.

1822
00:48:59,916 --> 00:49:01,250
I said, yeah, but it saved a lot of

1823
00:49:01,250 --> 00:49:02,625
lives, believe it or not.

1824
00:49:02,625 --> 00:49:04,166
And by the way, there was more

1825
00:49:04,166 --> 00:49:04,833
destruction done by

1826
00:49:04,833 --> 00:49:06,541
firebombing than the nukes.

1827
00:49:06,541 --> 00:49:07,625
So we can take it to that.

1828
00:49:07,625 --> 00:49:09,541
That's my political agenda.

1829
00:49:09,541 --> 00:49:11,666
But we did it.

1830
00:49:11,666 --> 00:49:13,291
But now you've got an

1831
00:49:13,291 --> 00:49:15,541
incredible power, right?

1832
00:49:15,541 --> 00:49:17,083
But hey, it was in the hands of the US

1833
00:49:17,083 --> 00:49:18,791
and people say, yeah, we used it.

1834
00:49:18,791 --> 00:49:20,041
We used it to end the war.

1835
00:49:20,041 --> 00:49:20,916
And it did.

1836
00:49:20,916 --> 00:49:22,416
It ended the war like that.

1837
00:49:23,125 --> 00:49:28,791
Now swap it and go Hitler got it first.

1838
00:49:28,791 --> 00:49:30,583
Now you've got an incredible power in the

1839
00:49:30,583 --> 00:49:31,708
hands of someone who

1840
00:49:31,708 --> 00:49:32,750
doesn't want to do good

1841
00:49:32,750 --> 00:49:34,958
and doesn't want to control it, who wants

1842
00:49:34,958 --> 00:49:37,125
to use it for pure evil.

1843
00:49:37,125 --> 00:49:38,458
Now move on to something.

1844
00:49:38,458 --> 00:49:41,375
Let's just on a whim, let's go.

1845
00:49:41,375 --> 00:49:45,500
Hey, you got, you get a tic-tac.

1846
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:47,208
You catch a tic-tac.

1847
00:49:47,208 --> 00:49:49,541
And oh, by the way, the tic-tac is power

1848
00:49:49,541 --> 00:49:50,708
very much on what how Bob

1849
00:49:50,708 --> 00:49:52,333
Lazar describes the vehicles

1850
00:49:52,541 --> 00:49:54,291
that he worked on.

1851
00:49:54,291 --> 00:49:55,833
It's powered by element 115.

1852
00:49:55,833 --> 00:49:57,500
It creates a gravitational field and you

1853
00:49:57,500 --> 00:49:59,375
can move things around really fast.

1854
00:49:59,375 --> 00:50:00,375
Okay.

1855
00:50:00,375 --> 00:50:02,208
You could use that for good.

1856
00:50:02,208 --> 00:50:03,125
Like why I can generate

1857
00:50:03,125 --> 00:50:04,000
this incredible power.

1858
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:05,291
I can really change mankind

1859
00:50:05,291 --> 00:50:06,291
and it'll be used for the good.

1860
00:50:06,291 --> 00:50:08,458
But eventually that technology will end

1861
00:50:08,458 --> 00:50:10,041
up in the wrong hands.

1862
00:50:10,041 --> 00:50:10,833
Now think about it

1863
00:50:10,833 --> 00:50:12,958
where I've got this thing.

1864
00:50:12,958 --> 00:50:15,208
And if it performs like what we saw, you

1865
00:50:15,208 --> 00:50:16,250
know, it can, I could

1866
00:50:16,250 --> 00:50:18,875
have it here in, you know,

1867
00:50:18,875 --> 00:50:19,791
here in Portsmouth.

1868
00:50:20,250 --> 00:50:21,250
I load it up with

1869
00:50:21,250 --> 00:50:24,333
something bad, like a weapon.

1870
00:50:24,333 --> 00:50:26,916
I go go, it goes straight up into space.

1871
00:50:26,916 --> 00:50:27,958
It goes to wherever it is.

1872
00:50:27,958 --> 00:50:29,750
It comes straight back down and it does

1873
00:50:29,750 --> 00:50:31,375
this in a matter of seconds.

1874
00:50:31,375 --> 00:50:33,541
It goes up, down, down, lands in the

1875
00:50:33,541 --> 00:50:35,416
middle of a city, sets a

1876
00:50:35,416 --> 00:50:36,625
fuse for three seconds,

1877
00:50:36,625 --> 00:50:37,666
drops it out the door,

1878
00:50:37,666 --> 00:50:40,000
closes up and it's gone.

1879
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:41,833
Two, one, boom.

1880
00:50:41,833 --> 00:50:43,333
You don't even know it was there.

1881
00:50:43,333 --> 00:50:44,625
Now you've got a technology in the hands

1882
00:50:44,625 --> 00:50:45,208
of someone who's going

1883
00:50:45,208 --> 00:50:46,541
to use it for evil and

1884
00:50:46,541 --> 00:50:48,666
use it to hold people hostage.

1885
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:49,875
That's the fear why you need

1886
00:50:49,875 --> 00:50:51,041
to protect some of this stuff.

1887
00:50:51,041 --> 00:50:52,666
And then you can go on and on and on,

1888
00:50:52,666 --> 00:50:54,208
like how are these things traveling?

1889
00:50:54,208 --> 00:50:56,083
How are they moving?

1890
00:50:56,083 --> 00:50:58,083
If really there's no planet for them to

1891
00:50:58,083 --> 00:50:58,916
come from that's, you

1892
00:50:58,916 --> 00:51:00,041
know, not more than, you

1893
00:51:00,041 --> 00:51:00,833
know, 15 light years

1894
00:51:00,833 --> 00:51:02,208
away, how do they get here?

1895
00:51:02,208 --> 00:51:03,125
You know, there's a bunch of stuff we

1896
00:51:03,125 --> 00:51:04,833
don't understand, which is a

1897
00:51:04,833 --> 00:51:06,166
little bit of a frustration

1898
00:51:06,166 --> 00:51:09,416
with some of the folks that are physics

1899
00:51:09,416 --> 00:51:10,083
minded that say, well,

1900
00:51:10,083 --> 00:51:11,375
that's against the law of

1901
00:51:11,375 --> 00:51:11,583
physics.

1902
00:51:11,583 --> 00:51:12,250
No, it's against the laws

1903
00:51:12,250 --> 00:51:13,416
of physics that we know.

1904
00:51:13,416 --> 00:51:15,125
You know, Einstein came up with a lot of

1905
00:51:15,125 --> 00:51:16,375
laws of physics and

1906
00:51:16,375 --> 00:51:17,416
theories that went against

1907
00:51:17,583 --> 00:51:20,000
what people believed at the time, but

1908
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:21,708
they've been proven to be true.

1909
00:51:21,708 --> 00:51:24,333
So because we don't have it now, doesn't

1910
00:51:24,333 --> 00:51:25,166
mean it's not possible.

1911
00:51:25,166 --> 00:51:26,791
It just means we haven't figured it out.

1912
00:51:26,791 --> 00:51:28,416
And if you talk to, you know, because

1913
00:51:28,416 --> 00:51:30,333
I've talked to Bob,

1914
00:51:30,333 --> 00:51:31,791
he'll tell you, I said, how

1915
00:51:31,791 --> 00:51:34,500
long till you think you, what you saw.

1916
00:51:34,500 --> 00:51:36,000
He said, at least in another hundred

1917
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:36,708
years, because our

1918
00:51:36,708 --> 00:51:37,791
material science, it's the same

1919
00:51:37,791 --> 00:51:39,000
thing with anything else.

1920
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:40,666
You go, Oh, can we do this?

1921
00:51:40,666 --> 00:51:41,208
We don't have the

1922
00:51:41,208 --> 00:51:42,708
material science to do it.

1923
00:51:42,708 --> 00:51:44,000
But now we do.

1924
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:45,875
So I was talking to him one day and I

1925
00:51:45,875 --> 00:51:47,333
said, I said, Hey, I'm going to do this.

1926
00:51:48,041 --> 00:51:48,916
How would you describe it?

1927
00:51:48,916 --> 00:51:51,416
He says in 1989, because he says he got

1928
00:51:51,416 --> 00:51:52,250
to go inside the craft.

1929
00:51:52,250 --> 00:51:53,916
And this is obviously to the audience.

1930
00:51:53,916 --> 00:51:55,375
If you're assuming that you believe Bob,

1931
00:51:55,375 --> 00:51:56,375
I'll just say Bob's a

1932
00:51:56,375 --> 00:51:57,958
very legitimate guy and he's

1933
00:51:57,958 --> 00:51:59,000
very smart.

1934
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:00,291
He said, if you'd asked me, it was made

1935
00:52:00,291 --> 00:52:01,166
out of wax and then you

1936
00:52:01,166 --> 00:52:02,000
heat it up and then all

1937
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:03,125
the seams would melt because it didn't

1938
00:52:03,125 --> 00:52:03,875
have any seams or

1939
00:52:03,875 --> 00:52:05,125
rivets or anything like that.

1940
00:52:05,125 --> 00:52:06,500
That was 1989.

1941
00:52:06,500 --> 00:52:07,625
I said, what about now?

1942
00:52:07,625 --> 00:52:08,333
This is a couple of years ago.

1943
00:52:08,333 --> 00:52:10,750
He said 3d printing.

1944
00:52:10,750 --> 00:52:12,500
He goes, you would just 3d print it

1945
00:52:12,500 --> 00:52:13,125
because if you look at

1946
00:52:13,125 --> 00:52:14,125
anything 3d printed, you know,

1947
00:52:14,208 --> 00:52:15,625
you can make things that move in 3d

1948
00:52:15,625 --> 00:52:18,000
printing, but it's one solid piece.

1949
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:19,250
It's literally revolution.

1950
00:52:19,250 --> 00:52:20,708
There, there's a guy that made a whole

1951
00:52:20,708 --> 00:52:22,416
car out of 3d printing.

1952
00:52:22,416 --> 00:52:23,250
So the break assembly

1953
00:52:23,250 --> 00:52:24,583
is literally one unit.

1954
00:52:24,583 --> 00:52:26,666
It's made as one unit and the piston

1955
00:52:26,666 --> 00:52:27,500
inside moves and it

1956
00:52:27,500 --> 00:52:29,041
doesn't have, you can't break

1957
00:52:29,041 --> 00:52:29,083
it.

1958
00:52:29,083 --> 00:52:31,000
You can't it's, what we're, what we're

1959
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:32,250
probably imagining here is

1960
00:52:32,250 --> 00:52:33,833
more of, you know, not 3d

1961
00:52:33,833 --> 00:52:35,416
printing as we have it today, but you

1962
00:52:35,416 --> 00:52:36,625
know, a technological

1963
00:52:36,625 --> 00:52:37,541
progression that would make

1964
00:52:37,541 --> 00:52:38,958
it probably visually

1965
00:52:38,958 --> 00:52:40,500
seamless and very strong.

1966
00:52:40,500 --> 00:52:41,666
Not what we have today.

1967
00:52:41,666 --> 00:52:42,916
It's going to get better.

1968
00:52:42,916 --> 00:52:43,375
Sure.

1969
00:52:43,958 --> 00:52:45,000
It's going to get way better.

1970
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:46,125
You know, material

1971
00:52:46,125 --> 00:52:48,250
deposition in a controlled manner.

1972
00:52:48,250 --> 00:52:50,041
So let me, let me jump back a little bit,

1973
00:52:50,041 --> 00:52:51,166
you know, based off of

1974
00:52:51,166 --> 00:52:51,875
what you were talking

1975
00:52:51,875 --> 00:52:53,666
about with national security, which is of

1976
00:52:53,666 --> 00:52:54,666
course something I

1977
00:52:54,666 --> 00:52:58,333
respect as a former aviator.

1978
00:52:58,333 --> 00:53:00,333
We have to also remember that.

1979
00:53:00,333 --> 00:53:01,791
And so this was under the context of,

1980
00:53:01,791 --> 00:53:02,875
Hey, is a, is a

1981
00:53:02,875 --> 00:53:04,625
discovery mindset or disclosure

1982
00:53:04,625 --> 00:53:06,875
mindset you know, the way

1983
00:53:06,875 --> 00:53:08,083
forward in this conversation.

1984
00:53:08,083 --> 00:53:10,416
And to your point, you know, obviously

1985
00:53:10,416 --> 00:53:12,375
there has to be very serious national

1986
00:53:12,375 --> 00:53:13,333
security considerations

1987
00:53:13,750 --> 00:53:15,750
putting into whatever information could

1988
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:17,166
be released from the government.

1989
00:53:17,166 --> 00:53:20,250
If that is an avenue that we proceed

1990
00:53:20,250 --> 00:53:22,208
down, we can't just

1991
00:53:22,208 --> 00:53:23,958
sacrifice our national security

1992
00:53:23,958 --> 00:53:25,125
to do this.

1993
00:53:25,125 --> 00:53:26,791
However, I would say looking into the

1994
00:53:26,791 --> 00:53:27,916
medium and long-term, one

1995
00:53:27,916 --> 00:53:29,583
of the problems that the

1996
00:53:29,583 --> 00:53:34,000
US has to contend with in relation to

1997
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,416
international competition is the fact

1998
00:53:35,416 --> 00:53:37,500
some of our adversaries

1999
00:53:37,500 --> 00:53:39,583
can essentially apply massive amounts of

2000
00:53:39,583 --> 00:53:41,500
resources to problems outside of the

2001
00:53:41,500 --> 00:53:43,166
capitalistic framework.

2002
00:53:43,250 --> 00:53:44,250
And so they can pick and

2003
00:53:44,250 --> 00:53:45,458
choose what they go after.

2004
00:53:45,458 --> 00:53:48,125
And so if here in the United States, if

2005
00:53:48,125 --> 00:53:49,625
we retain the research

2006
00:53:49,625 --> 00:53:52,666
and development or the,

2007
00:53:52,666 --> 00:53:54,583
the really hard work on this problem on

2008
00:53:54,583 --> 00:53:57,000
UAP into a very limited

2009
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,000
quantity of experts, my

2010
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,000
fear is we're not taking advantage of the

2011
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:03,500
great and massive

2012
00:54:03,500 --> 00:54:04,791
advantages that are, you

2013
00:54:04,791 --> 00:54:07,541
know, our financial framework, our, our,

2014
00:54:07,541 --> 00:54:09,291
our capitalistic society provides us.

2015
00:54:09,291 --> 00:54:10,416
We're holding back from that.

2016
00:54:10,500 --> 00:54:13,250
And we will be passed by our competitors

2017
00:54:13,250 --> 00:54:15,333
if or when they elect to

2018
00:54:15,333 --> 00:54:16,208
put those massive amount

2019
00:54:16,208 --> 00:54:17,458
of resources into it.

2020
00:54:17,458 --> 00:54:19,083
And I fear that's where we're at today.

2021
00:54:19,083 --> 00:54:20,750
Do you have any thoughts on that?

2022
00:54:20,750 --> 00:54:21,833
I do.

2023
00:54:21,833 --> 00:54:24,125
So again, it's part of the, you know, the

2024
00:54:24,125 --> 00:54:25,791
way we're structured.

2025
00:54:25,791 --> 00:54:27,458
And sometimes you look at it and go, our

2026
00:54:27,458 --> 00:54:29,791
system is a little archaic.

2027
00:54:29,791 --> 00:54:30,916
Okay.

2028
00:54:30,916 --> 00:54:32,458
That's kind of that checks and balances.

2029
00:54:32,458 --> 00:54:34,958
It's the bureaucracy we call DC.

2030
00:54:35,500 --> 00:54:37,583
So I was at a, I was at a, I was at a

2031
00:54:37,583 --> 00:54:38,958
brief and there was an

2032
00:54:38,958 --> 00:54:41,875
undersecretary for one of

2033
00:54:41,875 --> 00:54:43,375
the services and they were

2034
00:54:43,375 --> 00:54:45,333
talking about acquisition.

2035
00:54:45,333 --> 00:54:47,833
And he said, our plan is to go fast

2036
00:54:47,833 --> 00:54:49,875
because we need to go faster.

2037
00:54:49,875 --> 00:54:51,541
Because if you take governments like, you

2038
00:54:51,541 --> 00:54:52,791
know, I'll just use Russia and China.

2039
00:54:52,791 --> 00:54:54,708
They don't, you know, I don't think Putin

2040
00:54:54,708 --> 00:54:55,416
worries about, you

2041
00:54:55,416 --> 00:54:56,208
know, does he, he doesn't

2042
00:54:56,208 --> 00:54:57,458
go and ask for approval.

2043
00:54:57,458 --> 00:54:58,833
Like, Oh, I, can you

2044
00:54:58,833 --> 00:54:59,750
approve us to do this?

2045
00:54:59,750 --> 00:55:00,958
I think he makes that decision.

2046
00:55:00,958 --> 00:55:03,875
I'm pretty sure China,

2047
00:55:03,875 --> 00:55:04,625
they make that decision.

2048
00:55:04,708 --> 00:55:06,166
The government makes that decision.

2049
00:55:06,166 --> 00:55:07,750
It doesn't go through a bunch of elected

2050
00:55:07,750 --> 00:55:08,541
officials that have

2051
00:55:08,541 --> 00:55:09,708
bipartisan views that go, Oh, I

2052
00:55:09,708 --> 00:55:10,416
don't want to do that.

2053
00:55:10,416 --> 00:55:11,666
Or no.

2054
00:55:11,666 --> 00:55:13,250
Yeah, I'll say okay, but you got to put

2055
00:55:13,250 --> 00:55:15,458
money towards my new bridge in my town.

2056
00:55:15,458 --> 00:55:16,250
It doesn't work that way.

2057
00:55:16,250 --> 00:55:17,333
They just do it.

2058
00:55:17,333 --> 00:55:18,750
I was also told in, you know, there's

2059
00:55:18,750 --> 00:55:19,625
other countries where

2060
00:55:19,625 --> 00:55:21,083
you go, oh, let's say you

2061
00:55:21,083 --> 00:55:23,208
got a company like, I don't know, name it

2062
00:55:23,208 --> 00:55:24,916
Google, IBM, whatever.

2063
00:55:24,916 --> 00:55:26,416
We'll just say we use Google.

2064
00:55:26,416 --> 00:55:26,625
Right.

2065
00:55:26,625 --> 00:55:28,208
So Google has a huge AI cloud computing.

2066
00:55:28,208 --> 00:55:30,625
It's based in Pittsburgh.

2067
00:55:30,625 --> 00:55:31,833
That would be like the US government

2068
00:55:31,833 --> 00:55:33,166
going, you know, AI cloud,

2069
00:55:33,166 --> 00:55:34,500
this is the next big thing.

2070
00:55:34,625 --> 00:55:36,583
We need to advance now.

2071
00:55:36,583 --> 00:55:38,083
The US government showing up in

2072
00:55:38,083 --> 00:55:38,666
Pittsburgh and telling

2073
00:55:38,666 --> 00:55:40,166
Google, we're taking this and

2074
00:55:40,166 --> 00:55:41,416
all your people and you can have them

2075
00:55:41,416 --> 00:55:43,000
back in three years.

2076
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:43,625
We don't have to tell you

2077
00:55:43,625 --> 00:55:44,333
what we're doing with them.

2078
00:55:44,333 --> 00:55:45,000
We don't have, we can

2079
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:45,708
pay them what we want.

2080
00:55:45,708 --> 00:55:47,041
We're just doing it.

2081
00:55:47,041 --> 00:55:48,708
And you have no choice.

2082
00:55:48,708 --> 00:55:50,750
You know, suck it up buttercup.

2083
00:55:50,750 --> 00:55:51,875
It's yeah, what I'm not

2084
00:55:51,875 --> 00:55:52,791
asking for your permission.

2085
00:55:52,791 --> 00:55:55,000
I'm telling you what we're going to do.

2086
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:55,666
That's the difference.

2087
00:55:55,666 --> 00:55:56,916
You know, if the US government went in

2088
00:55:56,916 --> 00:55:57,958
until Google, we're taking it all.

2089
00:55:57,958 --> 00:55:59,000
Googled be like, get out of here.

2090
00:55:59,000 --> 00:55:59,958
You know, next thing you know, you didn't

2091
00:55:59,958 --> 00:56:01,291
mean an eight year

2092
00:56:01,291 --> 00:56:02,458
lawsuit, you know, going

2093
00:56:02,541 --> 00:56:03,541
to the Supreme Court and

2094
00:56:03,541 --> 00:56:04,375
nothing would amount for it.

2095
00:56:04,375 --> 00:56:06,000
No one go to jail or anything else, which

2096
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:07,916
is an abuse of power.

2097
00:56:07,916 --> 00:56:08,041
Right?

2098
00:56:08,041 --> 00:56:09,083
So that's, that's the

2099
00:56:09,083 --> 00:56:10,291
thing that we're dealing with.

2100
00:56:10,291 --> 00:56:11,541
So when I was at this thing and he said,

2101
00:56:11,541 --> 00:56:12,458
go fast, I thought to

2102
00:56:12,458 --> 00:56:13,250
myself, I said, well, go

2103
00:56:13,250 --> 00:56:13,416
fast.

2104
00:56:13,416 --> 00:56:15,000
I said, but yeah, but you can't go fast

2105
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:15,666
because you're still, you

2106
00:56:15,666 --> 00:56:16,666
haven't changed the process

2107
00:56:16,666 --> 00:56:18,333
in order to get the money.

2108
00:56:18,333 --> 00:56:19,458
So, you know, when they do all the

2109
00:56:19,458 --> 00:56:20,500
budgets and stuff for DOD,

2110
00:56:20,500 --> 00:56:21,500
they're looking five years

2111
00:56:21,500 --> 00:56:22,750
out like here's the budget for the next

2112
00:56:22,750 --> 00:56:24,833
five years and here's what I want to buy.

2113
00:56:24,833 --> 00:56:26,750
And then it goes through, you know,

2114
00:56:26,750 --> 00:56:27,416
months and months and

2115
00:56:27,416 --> 00:56:28,291
months, finally ends up on

2116
00:56:28,291 --> 00:56:29,250
the presidential budget.

2117
00:56:29,250 --> 00:56:30,666
You know, this is like this thick and

2118
00:56:30,666 --> 00:56:31,333
then the presidential

2119
00:56:31,333 --> 00:56:32,083
budget comes out says boom.

2120
00:56:32,250 --> 00:56:33,791
And now they can start moving.

2121
00:56:33,791 --> 00:56:34,875
Now they've got, because they went

2122
00:56:34,875 --> 00:56:35,750
through appropriations,

2123
00:56:35,750 --> 00:56:37,208
they've got the money approved,

2124
00:56:37,208 --> 00:56:38,375
the president signed off.

2125
00:56:38,375 --> 00:56:39,541
We have all, we have the money.

2126
00:56:39,541 --> 00:56:41,541
Now we can do contracts.

2127
00:56:41,541 --> 00:56:44,500
Unless you change that or you have, you

2128
00:56:44,500 --> 00:56:46,208
redo funding that says,

2129
00:56:46,208 --> 00:56:48,333
hey, there, we have a pot

2130
00:56:48,333 --> 00:56:49,625
of money for certain things.

2131
00:56:49,625 --> 00:56:51,833
That's just going to get replenished.

2132
00:56:51,833 --> 00:56:54,083
But you know, now it's known, you know,

2133
00:56:54,083 --> 00:56:55,500
or you have a program that

2134
00:56:55,500 --> 00:56:57,000
it's kind of discretionary,

2135
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,666
kind of like a petty cash in a business

2136
00:56:59,666 --> 00:57:00,333
where you go, I just

2137
00:57:00,333 --> 00:57:01,500
need to go get this or buy,

2138
00:57:01,708 --> 00:57:02,750
you know, you don't have to, it's not,

2139
00:57:02,750 --> 00:57:05,250
you're just worried about what you took.

2140
00:57:05,250 --> 00:57:07,000
Because I think for the initial stuff on

2141
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:08,541
this is it's in the big

2142
00:57:08,541 --> 00:57:09,416
picture, it's relatively

2143
00:57:09,416 --> 00:57:10,625
low cost.

2144
00:57:10,625 --> 00:57:12,333
You know, I'm not trying to, I'm not

2145
00:57:12,333 --> 00:57:12,916
trying to build a

2146
00:57:12,916 --> 00:57:14,208
whole new infrastructure.

2147
00:57:14,208 --> 00:57:15,208
I'm not trying to do all that.

2148
00:57:15,208 --> 00:57:17,958
I'm trying to capitalize on this, you

2149
00:57:17,958 --> 00:57:20,583
know, and I think from the

2150
00:57:20,583 --> 00:57:21,333
speculation, like someone

2151
00:57:21,333 --> 00:57:22,833
did an account for the tic-tac, you know,

2152
00:57:22,833 --> 00:57:23,500
for it to come down

2153
00:57:23,500 --> 00:57:24,750
from above 80,000 feet,

2154
00:57:24,750 --> 00:57:26,291
hang out, do what it did,

2155
00:57:26,291 --> 00:57:28,000
and then go up and disappear.

2156
00:57:28,875 --> 00:57:30,333
The amount of energy for something that

2157
00:57:30,333 --> 00:57:31,333
we would know to do

2158
00:57:31,333 --> 00:57:32,666
that is like through the

2159
00:57:32,666 --> 00:57:33,333
roof.

2160
00:57:33,333 --> 00:57:34,916
It's like you're running New York City

2161
00:57:34,916 --> 00:57:36,166
for quite a long time

2162
00:57:36,166 --> 00:57:37,291
on the power required to

2163
00:57:37,291 --> 00:57:37,916
do that.

2164
00:57:37,916 --> 00:57:39,208
Like maybe ignite the

2165
00:57:39,208 --> 00:57:40,500
atmosphere type energy levels.

2166
00:57:40,500 --> 00:57:41,000
Yes.

2167
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:42,916
So you go, okay,

2168
00:57:42,916 --> 00:57:43,833
well, one, how's it doing?

2169
00:57:43,833 --> 00:57:46,041
Because now you're talking game changing

2170
00:57:46,041 --> 00:57:48,416
technology that we don't possess.

2171
00:57:48,416 --> 00:57:50,250
Or maybe we do possess, we just don't

2172
00:57:50,250 --> 00:57:52,083
know how to make it work.

2173
00:57:52,083 --> 00:57:55,708
You know, and oh, by the way, if we have

2174
00:57:55,708 --> 00:57:57,250
technology, and I'm just talking about

2175
00:57:57,250 --> 00:57:58,291
what was just released,

2176
00:57:59,291 --> 00:58:00,875
saying they're right, and we have

2177
00:58:00,875 --> 00:58:04,125
technology, and we have these craft in

2178
00:58:04,125 --> 00:58:06,375
some state of either

2179
00:58:06,375 --> 00:58:08,916
fully together or not fully together, I'm

2180
00:58:08,916 --> 00:58:10,500
going to assume that other countries have

2181
00:58:10,500 --> 00:58:12,708
the same thing, right?

2182
00:58:12,708 --> 00:58:14,333
So you can say, you know, let's just say

2183
00:58:14,333 --> 00:58:15,916
the big ones, Russia,

2184
00:58:15,916 --> 00:58:18,333
China, you know, where's

2185
00:58:18,333 --> 00:58:19,250
that at?

2186
00:58:19,250 --> 00:58:20,458
You know, and where are they at?

2187
00:58:20,458 --> 00:58:22,708
Because they don't have the issues that

2188
00:58:22,708 --> 00:58:23,875
we have, they're doing it.

2189
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:25,083
We have some of the brightest people in

2190
00:58:25,083 --> 00:58:26,416
the world, you know,

2191
00:58:26,416 --> 00:58:28,625
that want to do this stuff.

2192
00:58:28,625 --> 00:58:32,375
But, you know, is it a, can you because

2193
00:58:32,375 --> 00:58:33,208
your pool that you're

2194
00:58:33,208 --> 00:58:34,333
swimming in is much smaller

2195
00:58:34,333 --> 00:58:35,375
than the big pool.

2196
00:58:35,375 --> 00:58:37,916
And I've said this, is there a chance to

2197
00:58:37,916 --> 00:58:40,125
pull other academics,

2198
00:58:40,125 --> 00:58:42,708
where you go, this person

2199
00:58:42,708 --> 00:58:45,541
over here at this university is like one

2200
00:58:45,541 --> 00:58:47,333
of the leading experts.

2201
00:58:47,333 --> 00:58:50,000
Can you feed them in in a, you know,

2202
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:51,083
you'd have to kind of

2203
00:58:51,083 --> 00:58:52,458
put it in a swim lane, I'd

2204
00:58:52,750 --> 00:58:53,875
say, you know, where you're not going to

2205
00:58:53,875 --> 00:58:54,500
get to see everything,

2206
00:58:54,500 --> 00:58:55,000
but you're going to get

2207
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:55,833
to see this piece.

2208
00:58:55,833 --> 00:58:57,458
How's this work?

2209
00:58:57,458 --> 00:58:59,500
And I think that's probably been done,

2210
00:58:59,500 --> 00:59:00,625
but not overly

2211
00:59:00,625 --> 00:59:01,416
successful because I don't know

2212
00:59:01,416 --> 00:59:01,916
the state.

2213
00:59:01,916 --> 00:59:03,500
I don't know the truth on that stuff.

2214
00:59:03,500 --> 00:59:06,875
I just, you know, what I see, but a buddy

2215
00:59:06,875 --> 00:59:08,833
of mine, that I was, remember that text I

2216
00:59:08,833 --> 00:59:10,875
was reading when I came in here, he had

2217
00:59:10,875 --> 00:59:12,583
said, you know, why is,

2218
00:59:12,583 --> 00:59:13,708
why do you think that, you

2219
00:59:13,708 --> 00:59:15,000
know, the government is not trying to put

2220
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:15,875
a lid on some of this

2221
00:59:15,875 --> 00:59:16,875
stuff that's coming out?

2222
00:59:16,875 --> 00:59:18,958
And my response was social media.

2223
00:59:19,416 --> 00:59:20,333
The government can't

2224
00:59:20,333 --> 00:59:22,958
react fast enough to do it.

2225
00:59:22,958 --> 00:59:24,791
And oh, by the way, the difference

2226
00:59:24,791 --> 00:59:26,750
between now and the fifties

2227
00:59:26,750 --> 00:59:28,291
is the people in the government

2228
00:59:28,291 --> 00:59:30,041
want to know, you know, you've got

2229
00:59:30,041 --> 00:59:30,958
elected officials that

2230
00:59:30,958 --> 00:59:33,333
are actively, you know, the,

2231
00:59:33,333 --> 00:59:34,958
I think it was a defense acquisition bill

2232
00:59:34,958 --> 00:59:36,583
that got passed that

2233
00:59:36,583 --> 00:59:37,416
Senator Rubio and Gillibrand

2234
00:59:37,416 --> 00:59:39,291
put the clause, I think it was those two,

2235
00:59:39,291 --> 00:59:41,833
if I'm wrong, please forgive me.

2236
00:59:41,833 --> 00:59:43,666
The bill, the whistleblower that says,

2237
00:59:43,666 --> 00:59:45,333
look, anyone inside,

2238
00:59:45,333 --> 00:59:46,208
anyone that's working inside

2239
00:59:46,333 --> 00:59:47,875
the US government that has knowledge of

2240
00:59:47,875 --> 00:59:48,791
this stuff can come to

2241
00:59:48,791 --> 00:59:50,333
us as a whistleblower.

2242
00:59:50,333 --> 00:59:51,750
And there can be no

2243
00:59:51,750 --> 00:59:52,750
repercussions against you.

2244
00:59:52,750 --> 00:59:54,000
It's law, the

2245
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,208
president signed it, it's law.

2246
00:59:56,208 --> 00:59:58,875
So if your boss, you know, like, if I'd

2247
00:59:58,875 --> 01:00:00,083
have told someone when I

2248
01:00:00,083 --> 01:00:03,125
was a CEO, don't you say

2249
01:00:03,125 --> 01:00:06,083
a word.

2250
01:00:06,083 --> 01:00:07,708
You just need to get ahold of people in

2251
01:00:07,708 --> 01:00:08,958
DC and you can say whatever you want.

2252
01:00:08,958 --> 01:00:10,500
Nothing can happen to you.

2253
01:00:10,500 --> 01:00:11,916
You know, but I also, there was a thing

2254
01:00:11,916 --> 01:00:13,000
on a guy, I saw

2255
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:14,000
something in Afghanistan, but

2256
01:00:14,125 --> 01:00:15,500
I was told I couldn't talk about it

2257
01:00:15,500 --> 01:00:16,333
because it's top secret

2258
01:00:16,333 --> 01:00:17,083
and I'm not allowed to talk

2259
01:00:17,083 --> 01:00:17,208
about it.

2260
01:00:17,208 --> 01:00:21,000
It's like, you know, I couldn't, I

2261
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:22,375
couldn't look at someone, I

2262
01:00:22,375 --> 01:00:23,083
didn't have the authority.

2263
01:00:23,083 --> 01:00:24,375
I wasn't a classifying authority when I

2264
01:00:24,375 --> 01:00:25,916
was a CEO go, that's top secret.

2265
01:00:25,916 --> 01:00:27,458
You can't talk about it.

2266
01:00:27,458 --> 01:00:28,833
You know, maybe if you're a junior, you

2267
01:00:28,833 --> 01:00:29,541
know, you're an airman,

2268
01:00:29,541 --> 01:00:30,625
you know, you're 18 years

2269
01:00:30,625 --> 01:00:31,500
old, you'd be like, Oh my

2270
01:00:31,500 --> 01:00:33,000
God, I don't want to go to jail.

2271
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:34,625
But legally, I could, I

2272
01:00:34,625 --> 01:00:35,250
didn't have that power.

2273
01:00:35,250 --> 01:00:36,583
I didn't have to go, I'm making this,

2274
01:00:36,583 --> 01:00:37,916
this is now top secret.

2275
01:00:37,916 --> 01:00:40,791
Dave said so classified by Dave for Dave.

2276
01:00:40,791 --> 01:00:41,791
There's a process that goes

2277
01:00:41,791 --> 01:00:43,083
through when we classify stuff.

2278
01:00:43,166 --> 01:00:43,791
And there's reasons

2279
01:00:43,791 --> 01:00:45,500
that we classify stuff.

2280
01:00:45,500 --> 01:00:47,791
So it's, it's getting that stigma.

2281
01:00:47,791 --> 01:00:49,958
And supposedly he's only the

2282
01:00:49,958 --> 01:00:52,125
first one that's went public.

2283
01:00:52,125 --> 01:00:53,958
The rumor is from inside.

2284
01:00:53,958 --> 01:00:55,208
You talk about Grush right now.

2285
01:00:55,208 --> 01:00:55,791
Yes.

2286
01:00:55,791 --> 01:00:56,750
That there are, there are

2287
01:00:56,750 --> 01:00:58,750
many people that have come out.

2288
01:00:58,750 --> 01:00:59,833
There was a guy that came out and

2289
01:00:59,833 --> 01:01:00,708
actually said, I worked

2290
01:01:00,708 --> 01:01:03,708
with him and he's legit.

2291
01:01:03,708 --> 01:01:05,125
He's actually did those jobs.

2292
01:01:05,125 --> 01:01:06,500
He is actually, so now you got someone

2293
01:01:06,500 --> 01:01:07,791
that literally said he was there.

2294
01:01:07,791 --> 01:01:09,083
It's kind of like the, you know, I'll go

2295
01:01:09,083 --> 01:01:10,833
back to Bob because this is 1989.

2296
01:01:11,541 --> 01:01:12,791
Bob said he worked at Los Alamos and then

2297
01:01:12,791 --> 01:01:13,416
they're like the

2298
01:01:13,416 --> 01:01:16,416
national labs and no, no,

2299
01:01:16,416 --> 01:01:17,250
no, he didn't know.

2300
01:01:17,250 --> 01:01:17,500
He didn't.

2301
01:01:17,500 --> 01:01:18,333
And then they found a

2302
01:01:18,333 --> 01:01:19,500
phone book with his name in it.

2303
01:01:19,500 --> 01:01:20,500
So obviously he did.

2304
01:01:20,500 --> 01:01:22,083
And then he knew his way around and

2305
01:01:22,083 --> 01:01:23,416
people there knew him

2306
01:01:23,416 --> 01:01:25,125
like, Hey, you know, cause

2307
01:01:25,125 --> 01:01:26,083
guy that builds rocket cars

2308
01:01:26,083 --> 01:01:27,000
is pretty easy to remember.

2309
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:28,916
So you know, you're trying to race that

2310
01:01:28,916 --> 01:01:29,500
he was there, but then

2311
01:01:29,500 --> 01:01:30,500
you prove that he's really

2312
01:01:30,500 --> 01:01:31,041
there.

2313
01:01:31,041 --> 01:01:32,833
Well, now you got someone right away that

2314
01:01:32,833 --> 01:01:34,333
comes out and says, Oh no, that's legit.

2315
01:01:34,333 --> 01:01:35,291
He actually worked here.

2316
01:01:35,291 --> 01:01:36,791
Boom, boom, boom in the clear.

2317
01:01:37,458 --> 01:01:41,708
So I just think the, the tide has shifted

2318
01:01:41,708 --> 01:01:45,083
and it's picking up a lot of momentum.

2319
01:01:45,083 --> 01:01:46,541
Let me, let me explain one thing I've

2320
01:01:46,541 --> 01:01:47,791
been, I've been seeing

2321
01:01:47,791 --> 01:01:49,333
and this is that this is

2322
01:01:49,333 --> 01:01:49,708
a good time.

2323
01:01:49,708 --> 01:01:51,291
I guess a transition to this.

2324
01:01:51,291 --> 01:01:54,000
So as I think some of the watchers might

2325
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,750
know, I recently started

2326
01:01:55,750 --> 01:01:57,875
Americans for safe aerospace,

2327
01:01:57,875 --> 01:02:01,291
which is a five Oh one C three nonprofit.

2328
01:02:01,291 --> 01:02:02,916
Essentially our mission is to identify

2329
01:02:02,916 --> 01:02:05,333
what's in our skies in a

2330
01:02:05,333 --> 01:02:06,083
tactical environment in

2331
01:02:06,291 --> 01:02:07,875
a, you know, civilian

2332
01:02:07,875 --> 01:02:08,625
aviation environment.

2333
01:02:08,625 --> 01:02:10,625
Uncertainty in air space is something

2334
01:02:10,625 --> 01:02:11,875
that needs to be resolved.

2335
01:02:11,875 --> 01:02:13,750
That's not something that we just settle

2336
01:02:13,750 --> 01:02:15,416
with and we allowed to be

2337
01:02:15,416 --> 01:02:18,291
part of our normal operations.

2338
01:02:18,291 --> 01:02:20,916
And to what you were just talking about,

2339
01:02:20,916 --> 01:02:22,875
sadly we've seen, I think

2340
01:02:22,875 --> 01:02:24,083
some potential whistleblowers

2341
01:02:24,083 --> 01:02:26,625
not necessarily trust some of the people

2342
01:02:26,625 --> 01:02:27,958
in the pathway of that

2343
01:02:27,958 --> 01:02:28,958
process that you just

2344
01:02:28,958 --> 01:02:30,875
described that was passed in the national

2345
01:02:30,875 --> 01:02:34,375
defense authorization act of 2023.

2346
01:02:34,750 --> 01:02:38,208
Right now one of the agencies that is to

2347
01:02:38,208 --> 01:02:39,333
set up a secure pipeline

2348
01:02:39,333 --> 01:02:40,833
for that is the all domain

2349
01:02:40,833 --> 01:02:42,875
anomaly resolution office or arrow within

2350
01:02:42,875 --> 01:02:45,583
the department of defense.

2351
01:02:45,583 --> 01:02:47,041
However, it seems some whistleblowers are

2352
01:02:47,041 --> 01:02:47,833
going either directly

2353
01:02:47,833 --> 01:02:50,166
to Congress or to others

2354
01:02:50,166 --> 01:02:52,458
to report their cases.

2355
01:02:52,458 --> 01:02:54,333
There seems to have been some lack of

2356
01:02:54,333 --> 01:02:55,583
success reporting directly

2357
01:02:55,583 --> 01:02:56,833
through the arrow mechanisms

2358
01:02:56,833 --> 01:02:57,958
and at least some of the cases.

2359
01:02:57,958 --> 01:02:59,000
And this is anecdotal

2360
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:00,041
from what I've heard.

2361
01:03:01,375 --> 01:03:05,125
But the point is we are seeing a lot of

2362
01:03:05,125 --> 01:03:06,250
potential whistleblowers.

2363
01:03:06,250 --> 01:03:08,291
You may classify them as whistleblowers.

2364
01:03:08,291 --> 01:03:10,041
You may classify them just as pilots

2365
01:03:10,041 --> 01:03:11,916
who've seen things or for.

2366
01:03:11,916 --> 01:03:12,625
Patriots.

2367
01:03:12,625 --> 01:03:13,666
Patriots, yeah.

2368
01:03:13,666 --> 01:03:14,416
Military folks that

2369
01:03:14,416 --> 01:03:15,875
have seen a lot of things.

2370
01:03:15,875 --> 01:03:17,083
They actually are coming to

2371
01:03:17,083 --> 01:03:18,833
the American for safe aerospace.

2372
01:03:18,833 --> 01:03:21,208
They seem to feel that is an organization

2373
01:03:21,208 --> 01:03:23,416
that is respectable

2374
01:03:23,416 --> 01:03:24,875
and credentialed enough

2375
01:03:24,875 --> 01:03:27,750
where they are sharing their experiences.

2376
01:03:28,208 --> 01:03:31,333
Some of these we are formalizing into

2377
01:03:31,333 --> 01:03:32,541
official case files that

2378
01:03:32,541 --> 01:03:33,791
we may or may not be able

2379
01:03:33,791 --> 01:03:36,125
to present to Congress depending on how

2380
01:03:36,125 --> 01:03:38,375
the investigations continue.

2381
01:03:38,375 --> 01:03:40,541
So to your point, we are seeing these

2382
01:03:40,541 --> 01:03:41,666
people come out of the woodwork.

2383
01:03:41,666 --> 01:03:43,500
I think we're going to continue to see

2384
01:03:43,500 --> 01:03:47,125
that happen more and more.

2385
01:03:47,125 --> 01:03:49,916
For those that don't know, Dave here has

2386
01:03:49,916 --> 01:03:51,291
joined American for safe

2387
01:03:51,291 --> 01:03:53,250
aerospace currently on our

2388
01:03:53,250 --> 01:03:54,458
air crew leadership council.

2389
01:03:54,583 --> 01:03:57,125
We've also invited Dave to join us on the

2390
01:03:57,125 --> 01:04:00,291
board of directors at ASA.

2391
01:04:00,291 --> 01:04:02,125
It's always been important that this

2392
01:04:02,125 --> 01:04:04,708
organization was a pilot-led

2393
01:04:04,708 --> 01:04:05,541
organization because at the

2394
01:04:05,541 --> 01:04:06,958
end of the day this is

2395
01:04:06,958 --> 01:04:09,583
such a pragmatic issue for me.

2396
01:04:09,583 --> 01:04:11,416
And I know that you share that same

2397
01:04:11,416 --> 01:04:12,666
feeling because you

2398
01:04:12,666 --> 01:04:13,458
understand what it's like to be

2399
01:04:13,458 --> 01:04:14,958
up there and not have the ability to

2400
01:04:14,958 --> 01:04:17,083
mitigate these types of risks.

2401
01:04:17,083 --> 01:04:18,875
So thanks for joining and thanks for

2402
01:04:18,875 --> 01:04:20,083
speaking out on this topic.

2403
01:04:20,083 --> 01:04:23,208
No, it is because I think the focus right

2404
01:04:23,208 --> 01:04:24,291
now is everything has been military.

2405
01:04:24,458 --> 01:04:25,333
It was the east coast

2406
01:04:25,333 --> 01:04:26,166
events that you were part of.

2407
01:04:26,166 --> 01:04:27,583
It's the west coast events that we had.

2408
01:04:27,583 --> 01:04:30,083
But I know you talked to

2409
01:04:30,083 --> 01:04:32,583
Zeno, the airline pilots.

2410
01:04:32,583 --> 01:04:33,958
There's a bunch of people.

2411
01:04:33,958 --> 01:04:35,166
My brother-in-law is a UPS.

2412
01:04:35,166 --> 01:04:37,875
He's seen stuff flying over the Pacific.

2413
01:04:37,875 --> 01:04:39,333
Like, "Hey, I'm looking at a light go one

2414
01:04:39,333 --> 01:04:40,791
way and it just stops and goes right back

2415
01:04:40,791 --> 01:04:42,083
the other way."

2416
01:04:42,083 --> 01:04:44,833
We don't have that technology at all just

2417
01:04:44,833 --> 01:04:46,000
to stop and go the other way.

2418
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,083
So you're seeing a matter of fact I went

2419
01:04:48,083 --> 01:04:49,375
to, I was on vacation

2420
01:04:49,375 --> 01:04:51,291
in Hawaii and we got off

2421
01:04:51,291 --> 01:04:52,666
this whale watching thing.

2422
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:55,000
And there was one of the flight

2423
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:55,583
attendants from our

2424
01:04:55,583 --> 01:04:57,291
flight was on the thing.

2425
01:04:57,291 --> 01:05:02,791
She had her couple day layover in Hawaii.

2426
01:05:02,791 --> 01:05:04,708
And somehow the subject came up and she's

2427
01:05:04,708 --> 01:05:05,708
like, "Oh, we see stuff all the time."

2428
01:05:05,708 --> 01:05:06,541
She goes, "I've had

2429
01:05:06,541 --> 01:05:07,583
captains call me up in the cockpit.

2430
01:05:07,583 --> 01:05:09,333
Go check this out."

2431
01:05:09,333 --> 01:05:12,416
So the question is, one, I think it's

2432
01:05:12,416 --> 01:05:13,541
being reported more.

2433
01:05:13,541 --> 01:05:14,333
So this is kind of like

2434
01:05:14,333 --> 01:05:18,375
when you put a focus on safety.

2435
01:05:18,375 --> 01:05:20,708
When I did oil and gas, we went out and

2436
01:05:20,708 --> 01:05:22,083
consulted safety stuff.

2437
01:05:22,458 --> 01:05:25,458
So when you put a focus on safety, what

2438
01:05:25,458 --> 01:05:26,541
you first see is you

2439
01:05:26,541 --> 01:05:28,916
see a rise in incidents.

2440
01:05:28,916 --> 01:05:29,541
And it's not that

2441
01:05:29,541 --> 01:05:30,958
there's a rise in incidents.

2442
01:05:30,958 --> 01:05:33,333
There's a rise in reporting of incidents.

2443
01:05:33,333 --> 01:05:34,500
It's not more incidents.

2444
01:05:34,500 --> 01:05:36,083
It's just people are now talking about it

2445
01:05:36,083 --> 01:05:37,708
because they feel safe to talk about it.

2446
01:05:37,708 --> 01:05:41,875
So the more we're seeing with people, are

2447
01:05:41,875 --> 01:05:42,708
there more incidents?

2448
01:05:42,708 --> 01:05:45,041
Like are there more of these UAPs flying

2449
01:05:45,041 --> 01:05:46,708
around or are people just

2450
01:05:46,708 --> 01:05:47,625
more willing to talk about

2451
01:05:47,625 --> 01:05:47,791
it?

2452
01:05:47,791 --> 01:05:49,625
Because it used to be, "Yeah, I saw

2453
01:05:49,625 --> 01:05:51,083
something weird and that is what it is."

2454
01:05:51,083 --> 01:05:52,000
Like I never talked about it.

2455
01:05:52,083 --> 01:05:52,916
I was like, "I tricked myself."

2456
01:05:52,916 --> 01:05:54,791
You tricked yourself into thinking it's a

2457
01:05:54,791 --> 01:05:56,916
laissez because what else would it be?

2458
01:05:56,916 --> 01:06:00,791
But now you've got a reporting process

2459
01:06:00,791 --> 01:06:03,416
and I'll tell you what,

2460
01:06:03,416 --> 01:06:04,625
social media is becoming

2461
01:06:04,625 --> 01:06:06,500
and I'm not a big social media fan

2462
01:06:06,500 --> 01:06:07,166
because I think there's

2463
01:06:07,166 --> 01:06:09,958
so much BS on social media

2464
01:06:09,958 --> 01:06:12,500
and anyone can be anything.

2465
01:06:12,500 --> 01:06:13,500
Anyone can be a bully.

2466
01:06:13,500 --> 01:06:16,541
They're talking about, "Oh, the memes and

2467
01:06:16,541 --> 01:06:17,125
stuff that come out

2468
01:06:17,125 --> 01:06:18,333
with this submarine that

2469
01:06:18,333 --> 01:06:21,041
just imploded going down to the Titanic."

2470
01:06:21,916 --> 01:06:24,666
And you look at it because if people view

2471
01:06:24,666 --> 01:06:26,333
it, I always look at the

2472
01:06:26,333 --> 01:06:27,000
views like, "All right,

2473
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:27,250
it's great.

2474
01:06:27,250 --> 01:06:28,041
You guys did this story,

2475
01:06:28,041 --> 01:06:31,333
but it got a thousand views."

2476
01:06:31,333 --> 01:06:32,791
But it's still a thousand views.

2477
01:06:32,791 --> 01:06:34,000
And then if they share it, because what

2478
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:35,083
you don't see on YouTube

2479
01:06:35,083 --> 01:06:36,333
when it counts is, "Where

2480
01:06:36,333 --> 01:06:36,916
else was it shared?

2481
01:06:36,916 --> 01:06:38,041
Was it posted on Facebook?

2482
01:06:38,041 --> 01:06:39,500
Was it shared around?"

2483
01:06:39,500 --> 01:06:40,958
So word gets out there and

2484
01:06:40,958 --> 01:06:42,541
word gets out there fast.

2485
01:06:42,541 --> 01:06:44,500
So now I want to go back to 1947 and

2486
01:06:44,500 --> 01:06:45,083
think, "Okay,

2487
01:06:45,083 --> 01:06:46,500
Roswell, this thing crashes."

2488
01:06:47,583 --> 01:06:51,000
And the farmer sees it, he calls the Air

2489
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:51,625
Force, I'm trying to think

2490
01:06:51,625 --> 01:06:53,750
if his name goes out there.

2491
01:06:53,750 --> 01:06:54,958
Now you got social media and they're

2492
01:06:54,958 --> 01:06:56,166
doing it and the farmer's

2493
01:06:56,166 --> 01:06:57,125
taking pictures with his

2494
01:06:57,125 --> 01:06:58,333
phone and he's posting them.

2495
01:06:58,333 --> 01:07:00,000
Before the military shows up and he's

2496
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:01,250
posting that stuff on Facebook.

2497
01:07:01,250 --> 01:07:03,416
So now you got pictures of stuff.

2498
01:07:03,416 --> 01:07:05,583
You can't make that go away.

2499
01:07:05,583 --> 01:07:07,833
In 1947, you could.

2500
01:07:07,833 --> 01:07:10,000
You clean up the mess, "Oh, there's

2501
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:11,291
nothing to see here."

2502
01:07:11,291 --> 01:07:12,000
And then you do it.

2503
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:13,875
But with social media, there's so much.

2504
01:07:15,125 --> 01:07:17,875
First stuff hitting YouTube and Facebook

2505
01:07:17,875 --> 01:07:18,958
faster than it hits the

2506
01:07:18,958 --> 01:07:20,500
news networks because it's

2507
01:07:20,500 --> 01:07:21,708
someone with their cell phone.

2508
01:07:21,708 --> 01:07:23,416
The first thing they do is not send it to

2509
01:07:23,416 --> 01:07:25,916
NBC or CBS or CNN or Fox or whatever.

2510
01:07:25,916 --> 01:07:27,208
They post it.

2511
01:07:27,208 --> 01:07:28,416
They go, "Ooh, ooh, ooh.

2512
01:07:28,416 --> 01:07:29,791
I'm posting this and then I'm going to

2513
01:07:29,791 --> 01:07:30,750
put it on YouTube and

2514
01:07:30,750 --> 01:07:31,708
I'm going to do this stuff

2515
01:07:31,708 --> 01:07:34,458
because you see it."

2516
01:07:34,458 --> 01:07:36,041
And the proliferation

2517
01:07:36,041 --> 01:07:38,833
of security cameras.

2518
01:07:38,833 --> 01:07:42,041
You almost can't do anything between your

2519
01:07:42,041 --> 01:07:43,000
cell phone, because it

2520
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:44,166
tracks you, and security

2521
01:07:44,666 --> 01:07:45,250
cameras.

2522
01:07:45,250 --> 01:07:48,291
That's the murder suspect in Idaho, those

2523
01:07:48,291 --> 01:07:51,791
four kids that got killed, Kroenberger.

2524
01:07:51,791 --> 01:07:52,541
That's how they

2525
01:07:52,541 --> 01:07:53,625
started tracking cell phones.

2526
01:07:53,625 --> 01:07:54,916
They figured out his cell phone and then

2527
01:07:54,916 --> 01:07:55,791
they started looking at

2528
01:07:55,791 --> 01:07:56,666
security cameras and you

2529
01:07:56,666 --> 01:07:57,625
can see his ... They go,

2530
01:07:57,625 --> 01:07:58,500
"Well, there's a camera here.

2531
01:07:58,500 --> 01:08:00,625
He came this way and there's his car and

2532
01:08:00,625 --> 01:08:02,208
there's his car going the other way."

2533
01:08:02,208 --> 01:08:04,208
So you start narrowing stuff down.

2534
01:08:04,208 --> 01:08:06,791
So I think just technology alone that's

2535
01:08:06,791 --> 01:08:07,750
in the hands, because

2536
01:08:07,750 --> 01:08:08,750
we invited Big Brother

2537
01:08:08,750 --> 01:08:09,666
into our lives.

2538
01:08:10,291 --> 01:08:11,416
If you think so or not, but

2539
01:08:11,416 --> 01:08:14,708
go read 1984, you're living it.

2540
01:08:14,708 --> 01:08:15,500
It's too hard.

2541
01:08:15,500 --> 01:08:17,541
You can't put that back in a box.

2542
01:08:17,541 --> 01:08:18,416
It's out there.

2543
01:08:18,416 --> 01:08:20,000
And in our government, if you're China

2544
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:20,500
and you just want to

2545
01:08:20,500 --> 01:08:21,458
shut down the internet, you

2546
01:08:21,458 --> 01:08:23,458
can do that.

2547
01:08:23,458 --> 01:08:24,583
Shut down the internet in the United

2548
01:08:24,583 --> 01:08:24,875
States, you're going

2549
01:08:24,875 --> 01:08:26,708
to have a revolution.

2550
01:08:26,708 --> 01:08:27,708
People will just lose their minds.

2551
01:08:27,708 --> 01:08:29,166
People are worried about the electrical

2552
01:08:29,166 --> 01:08:32,083
grid, but I mean, same point, I think.

2553
01:08:32,083 --> 01:08:33,125
Yeah, but you think about it.

2554
01:08:33,125 --> 01:08:34,583
I think that's the big problem.

2555
01:08:34,583 --> 01:08:36,000
That's literally when I text back my

2556
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:37,375
buddies, like, "Why do you think that

2557
01:08:37,375 --> 01:08:37,875
stuff's not coming?"

2558
01:08:37,875 --> 01:08:39,125
I said, "I just think."

2559
01:08:39,875 --> 01:08:43,333
It's social media and now the support of

2560
01:08:43,333 --> 01:08:44,750
elected officials that want

2561
01:08:44,750 --> 01:08:48,125
to know, if there is stuff,

2562
01:08:48,125 --> 01:08:49,916
it's only a matter of time.

2563
01:08:49,916 --> 01:08:50,833
It's only a matter of time.

2564
01:08:50,833 --> 01:08:53,500
You can only hide so long because

2565
01:08:53,500 --> 01:08:56,833
someone's going to talk.

2566
01:08:56,833 --> 01:08:58,000
Someone's going to talk.

2567
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:01,125
And you can go back to 1989 when Bob

2568
01:09:01,125 --> 01:09:01,791
talked and didn't know

2569
01:09:01,791 --> 01:09:02,916
what was going to happen to

2570
01:09:02,916 --> 01:09:03,875
him.

2571
01:09:03,875 --> 01:09:06,166
And it's not believe or not believe.

2572
01:09:06,166 --> 01:09:06,916
He did this.

2573
01:09:07,500 --> 01:09:09,500
Now you're going, "Oh, the same stuff is

2574
01:09:09,500 --> 01:09:10,083
happening and oh, by

2575
01:09:10,083 --> 01:09:10,875
the way, there's more."

2576
01:09:10,875 --> 01:09:11,708
It's just so not everyone wants to help.

2577
01:09:11,708 --> 01:09:13,458
And now there's a process in place though

2578
01:09:13,458 --> 01:09:14,291
to do it the right way.

2579
01:09:14,291 --> 01:09:17,000
There's a formal process because when I

2580
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:18,500
talked to some of the

2581
01:09:18,500 --> 01:09:20,708
officials in DC, they had asked

2582
01:09:20,708 --> 01:09:20,833
one.

2583
01:09:20,833 --> 01:09:22,041
I said, "You don't know where to look."

2584
01:09:22,041 --> 01:09:23,583
And I said, "Here's the other one."

2585
01:09:23,583 --> 01:09:25,000
I said, "For one, if you look, everyone

2586
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:25,791
looks at the military."

2587
01:09:25,791 --> 01:09:27,125
There's a bunch of organizations inside

2588
01:09:27,125 --> 01:09:27,791
the United States

2589
01:09:27,791 --> 01:09:29,333
government that can hide stuff.

2590
01:09:29,333 --> 01:09:30,958
I said, "But from a military standpoint,

2591
01:09:30,958 --> 01:09:32,541
you're in a place three

2592
01:09:32,541 --> 01:09:33,708
years, four years, if you

2593
01:09:33,708 --> 01:09:35,333
do two tours, six years, blah, blah,

2594
01:09:35,333 --> 01:09:36,375
blah, except for like, Lamar."

2595
01:09:36,458 --> 01:09:38,291
And if you're going to go to places that

2596
01:09:38,291 --> 01:09:39,000
are really remote and

2597
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:40,416
you're going to hide stuff,

2598
01:09:40,416 --> 01:09:41,166
there's limited time that

2599
01:09:41,166 --> 01:09:42,750
you're going to be there.

2600
01:09:42,750 --> 01:09:45,916
But the government civilian population,

2601
01:09:45,916 --> 01:09:48,000
the GS is GS9 to 15 and

2602
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:49,083
it goes into SES, which

2603
01:09:49,083 --> 01:09:51,750
is the flag equivalence.

2604
01:09:51,750 --> 01:09:53,208
They'll stay in those positions and in

2605
01:09:53,208 --> 01:09:55,833
those organizations for 30, 35 years.

2606
01:09:55,833 --> 01:09:58,083
So if you said, "Hey, I've got this.

2607
01:09:58,083 --> 01:09:59,916
Just send it to Bob down the hall.

2608
01:09:59,916 --> 01:10:01,333
You know that long corridor

2609
01:10:01,333 --> 01:10:03,625
on the left and it goes to Bob.

2610
01:10:03,625 --> 01:10:04,291
Bob's got it.

2611
01:10:04,666 --> 01:10:06,458
He's been there forever.

2612
01:10:06,458 --> 01:10:07,208
He can do that."

2613
01:10:07,208 --> 01:10:08,083
It's right.

2614
01:10:08,083 --> 01:10:09,958
It's the irony of Hollywood when you look

2615
01:10:09,958 --> 01:10:11,583
at Independence Day

2616
01:10:11,583 --> 01:10:14,666
and they go out to the

2617
01:10:14,666 --> 01:10:18,541
place in the desert, which I think in the

2618
01:10:18,541 --> 01:10:19,125
movie they called

2619
01:10:19,125 --> 01:10:20,375
Area 51, but they go out

2620
01:10:20,375 --> 01:10:22,625
there and they're with the president and

2621
01:10:22,625 --> 01:10:23,333
they got the, I think

2622
01:10:23,333 --> 01:10:24,583
it's the secretary of defense

2623
01:10:24,583 --> 01:10:26,250
or whatever and they go in there and he's

2624
01:10:26,250 --> 01:10:28,000
like, "How did I not know about this?"

2625
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:29,083
The president says, and

2626
01:10:29,083 --> 01:10:29,833
they've been working on it.

2627
01:10:29,833 --> 01:10:31,000
"Oh, good to see you.

2628
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:33,125
We were hoping you would come someday."

2629
01:10:33,125 --> 01:10:33,583
And he's like, "How

2630
01:10:33,583 --> 01:10:34,166
did I know about this?"

2631
01:10:34,250 --> 01:10:34,666
And he goes, "Well, we

2632
01:10:34,666 --> 01:10:36,625
don't tell you everything."

2633
01:10:36,625 --> 01:10:38,791
There's only a few and that's literally,

2634
01:10:38,791 --> 01:10:40,083
you go, "Hey, there's

2635
01:10:40,083 --> 01:10:41,000
30, 40 people that know

2636
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:42,583
about it in the entire United States."

2637
01:10:42,583 --> 01:10:47,375
You go, "Okay."

2638
01:10:47,375 --> 01:10:49,125
You don't think you could hide stuff?

2639
01:10:49,125 --> 01:10:51,500
It's like, "Yeah, you can hide stuff.

2640
01:10:51,500 --> 01:10:53,625
You can hide stuff in plain sight."

2641
01:10:53,625 --> 01:10:54,875
Well, I want to go back to the point that

2642
01:10:54,875 --> 01:10:56,166
you made earlier

2643
01:10:56,166 --> 01:10:57,958
about, or at least actually

2644
01:10:58,041 --> 01:11:01,791
the point I made, but I will add that

2645
01:11:01,791 --> 01:11:03,916
folks that are in a

2646
01:11:03,916 --> 01:11:05,458
position to take advantage of

2647
01:11:05,458 --> 01:11:08,000
those whistleblower laws that were put

2648
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:09,916
into place or commercial

2649
01:11:09,916 --> 01:11:11,750
pilots or other aircrew

2650
01:11:11,750 --> 01:11:15,416
that want to add their data to this, you

2651
01:11:15,416 --> 01:11:15,875
can go to

2652
01:11:15,875 --> 01:11:20,458
safearowspace.org and contact us to submit

2653
01:11:20,458 --> 01:11:21,416
that statement.

2654
01:11:21,416 --> 01:11:23,791
As I said, we are developing some

2655
01:11:23,791 --> 01:11:25,916
interesting cases that could

2656
01:11:25,916 --> 01:11:27,166
potentially form into eventual

2657
01:11:27,708 --> 01:11:28,708
whistleblower cases.

2658
01:11:28,708 --> 01:11:30,291
We're not interested in

2659
01:11:30,291 --> 01:11:31,250
classified information.

2660
01:11:31,250 --> 01:11:33,000
We're not set up for that and that's not

2661
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:34,000
what we're asking for.

2662
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:38,083
But whether you have supporting paperwork

2663
01:11:38,083 --> 01:11:40,000
or something that's very firm or you just

2664
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:41,708
like to add your data, I would encourage

2665
01:11:41,708 --> 01:11:42,583
you to go to the

2666
01:11:42,583 --> 01:11:45,583
website, join up and send an

2667
01:11:45,583 --> 01:11:46,833
email to submit your story.

2668
01:11:46,833 --> 01:11:49,083
We are going to have more formalized

2669
01:11:49,083 --> 01:11:50,208
database as well as

2670
01:11:50,208 --> 01:11:51,541
submission forms specifically for

2671
01:11:51,541 --> 01:11:53,958
this task in the near future, hopefully

2672
01:11:53,958 --> 01:11:55,500
up already by the time this airs.

2673
01:11:56,208 --> 01:11:57,750
But I would encourage you again to go to

2674
01:11:57,750 --> 01:12:00,416
safearowspace.org and

2675
01:12:00,416 --> 01:12:02,291
submit through there.

2676
01:12:02,291 --> 01:12:04,500
I think that's important too because not

2677
01:12:04,500 --> 01:12:05,541
everyone has access to go

2678
01:12:05,541 --> 01:12:06,958
to Congress and some people

2679
01:12:06,958 --> 01:12:08,500
just don't know where to report it.

2680
01:12:08,500 --> 01:12:10,500
It's not like they're afraid, it's just

2681
01:12:10,500 --> 01:12:11,500
they don't know where to go.

2682
01:12:11,500 --> 01:12:12,375
It's a lot.

2683
01:12:12,375 --> 01:12:16,500
The cool thing with this is it's podcast,

2684
01:12:16,500 --> 01:12:17,833
it's reputable

2685
01:12:17,833 --> 01:12:18,791
podcast where you go, "Hey,

2686
01:12:18,791 --> 01:12:22,041
look, this is not my end all.

2687
01:12:22,041 --> 01:12:22,666
I'm not trying to

2688
01:12:22,666 --> 01:12:23,791
become overly famous on this.

2689
01:12:23,875 --> 01:12:26,375
I'm just trying to solve answers."

2690
01:12:26,375 --> 01:12:27,541
I think you've done that.

2691
01:12:27,541 --> 01:12:29,250
Lex Friedman has done a great job of

2692
01:12:29,250 --> 01:12:30,708
bringing people on because he takes a

2693
01:12:30,708 --> 01:12:31,375
scientific approach.

2694
01:12:31,375 --> 01:12:33,500
And then Joe Rogan, who obviously being

2695
01:12:33,500 --> 01:12:34,333
the largest pod, I think

2696
01:12:34,333 --> 01:12:35,333
he's the largest podcast

2697
01:12:35,333 --> 01:12:38,166
on the planet, he gets us out there and

2698
01:12:38,166 --> 01:12:39,625
he talks about it

2699
01:12:39,625 --> 01:12:41,833
professionally as does Lex.

2700
01:12:41,833 --> 01:12:42,541
And that's what you want.

2701
01:12:42,541 --> 01:12:43,500
You want this credible,

2702
01:12:43,500 --> 01:12:45,625
kind of unbiased view.

2703
01:12:45,625 --> 01:12:46,875
Well, what do you think?

2704
01:12:46,875 --> 01:12:48,083
You hear it, is that guy full of shit?

2705
01:12:48,083 --> 01:12:49,708
I don't know.

2706
01:12:51,291 --> 01:12:52,458
When you're talking about some of the

2707
01:12:52,458 --> 01:12:53,583
people that come forward,

2708
01:12:53,583 --> 01:12:54,375
because I've heard people

2709
01:12:54,375 --> 01:12:55,416
talk that I don't agree with.

2710
01:12:55,416 --> 01:12:58,375
There's people that talk that if I get

2711
01:12:58,375 --> 01:12:59,083
called up and someone

2712
01:12:59,083 --> 01:13:00,291
says, "Hey, I got called up

2713
01:13:00,291 --> 01:13:01,958
by a foreign TV station."

2714
01:13:01,958 --> 01:13:02,583
Say, "Hey, will you do this?"

2715
01:13:02,583 --> 01:13:03,416
I said, "Who are you working with?"

2716
01:13:03,416 --> 01:13:04,083
They said, "Well, we're

2717
01:13:04,083 --> 01:13:04,625
talking to this person."

2718
01:13:04,625 --> 01:13:07,625
I says, "He can cut me out."

2719
01:13:07,625 --> 01:13:08,500
Because if there's certain people they're

2720
01:13:08,500 --> 01:13:09,500
going to be a part of, I don't want to be

2721
01:13:09,500 --> 01:13:10,666
a part because to me

2722
01:13:10,666 --> 01:13:12,666
it detracts credibility.

2723
01:13:12,666 --> 01:13:13,166
It's part of the

2724
01:13:13,166 --> 01:13:15,041
reason I don't talk much.

2725
01:13:15,041 --> 01:13:16,625
You've seen my phone, I

2726
01:13:16,625 --> 01:13:18,333
get requests all the time.

2727
01:13:18,333 --> 01:13:20,500
Right now I only do it if I know you.

2728
01:13:21,291 --> 01:13:22,291
That's why we're talking.

2729
01:13:22,291 --> 01:13:22,791
I know you.

2730
01:13:22,791 --> 01:13:23,416
I trust you.

2731
01:13:23,416 --> 01:13:24,583
I know this is not going to come out like

2732
01:13:24,583 --> 01:13:29,083
a clown show, which to me is important.

2733
01:13:29,083 --> 01:13:30,541
I'm not saying that some of the ones that

2734
01:13:30,541 --> 01:13:32,458
have contacted me aren't reputable.

2735
01:13:32,458 --> 01:13:35,541
Don't take it that way.

2736
01:13:35,541 --> 01:13:37,541
I have the ability to be selective.

2737
01:13:37,541 --> 01:13:39,041
I have a whole other life that

2738
01:13:39,041 --> 01:13:41,000
I live and I'd like to leave.

2739
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:43,625
I like that life.

2740
01:13:43,625 --> 01:13:46,500
Like I said, as much as my time in the

2741
01:13:46,500 --> 01:13:47,458
Navy didn't define me, I

2742
01:13:47,458 --> 01:13:48,000
don't think this should

2743
01:13:48,333 --> 01:13:50,708
define me, although it has, because I get

2744
01:13:50,708 --> 01:13:51,250
people that come up

2745
01:13:51,250 --> 01:13:52,041
to me on the street and

2746
01:13:52,041 --> 01:13:53,291
go, "Hey, you're that guy."

2747
01:13:53,291 --> 01:13:54,250
I go, "Yes, I am."

2748
01:13:54,250 --> 01:14:00,000
I was at a facility at work.

2749
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:00,958
We were meeting with some

2750
01:14:00,958 --> 01:14:04,541
people, some of our clients.

2751
01:14:04,541 --> 01:14:06,833
We were talking to two of them.

2752
01:14:06,833 --> 01:14:08,208
There was like six of us and there's

2753
01:14:08,208 --> 01:14:08,958
these two guys and

2754
01:14:08,958 --> 01:14:09,958
they're sitting there at their

2755
01:14:09,958 --> 01:14:11,833
computer terminals and talking.

2756
01:14:11,833 --> 01:14:13,000
I look over at the guy on the right and

2757
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:14,500
he's turned around and

2758
01:14:14,500 --> 01:14:15,541
I can see he's Googling

2759
01:14:15,541 --> 01:14:16,416
and I see Nimitz.

2760
01:14:17,333 --> 01:14:19,250
I'm like, "Oh, great."

2761
01:14:19,250 --> 01:14:20,708
He turns around and he looks at me and he

2762
01:14:20,708 --> 01:14:22,166
goes, "Hey," because I

2763
01:14:22,166 --> 01:14:23,041
saw what he was Googling

2764
01:14:23,041 --> 01:14:25,500
and he goes, "Hey," I go, "Yes."

2765
01:14:25,500 --> 01:14:29,000
I go, "Yes, yes."

2766
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:29,375
Someone looked at me and

2767
01:14:29,375 --> 01:14:31,041
they go, "I'll tell you later."

2768
01:14:31,041 --> 01:14:33,375
When I left, my boss was there and when

2769
01:14:33,375 --> 01:14:34,000
we got back together,

2770
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:34,625
she goes, "Wow, they must

2771
01:14:34,625 --> 01:14:35,333
have really been

2772
01:14:35,333 --> 01:14:38,250
interested in our stuff."

2773
01:14:38,250 --> 01:14:39,416
I said, "No."

2774
01:14:39,416 --> 01:14:41,541
I said, "That guy knew who I was and he

2775
01:14:41,541 --> 01:14:42,833
just wanted to talk about

2776
01:14:42,833 --> 01:14:44,208
the UFOs and what's going

2777
01:14:44,208 --> 01:14:44,875
on."

2778
01:14:45,500 --> 01:14:48,250
I said, "It's that piece."

2779
01:14:48,250 --> 01:14:49,041
I laugh.

2780
01:14:49,041 --> 01:14:52,166
At times it's funny and most people are

2781
01:14:52,166 --> 01:14:52,916
pretty cool about it.

2782
01:14:52,916 --> 01:14:54,791
You can tell but they'll stare but

2783
01:14:54,791 --> 01:14:55,208
several once in a while

2784
01:14:55,208 --> 01:14:56,375
they'll come up and most people

2785
01:14:56,375 --> 01:14:57,875
are really polite like, "Hey, thanks.

2786
01:14:57,875 --> 01:14:59,041
Really appreciate what you did."

2787
01:14:59,041 --> 01:15:01,375
But for the most part, I

2788
01:15:01,375 --> 01:15:03,791
don't want it to define me.

2789
01:15:03,791 --> 01:15:07,291
You've been a Marine.

2790
01:15:07,291 --> 01:15:11,041
You've been a Navy fighter pilot,

2791
01:15:11,041 --> 01:15:13,666
commanding officer, top gun graduate.

2792
01:15:14,291 --> 01:15:15,833
Did you instruct at top gun?

2793
01:15:15,833 --> 01:15:17,041
No, I did not.

2794
01:15:17,041 --> 01:15:19,500
I went through top gun and instead of

2795
01:15:19,500 --> 01:15:20,583
going to be like a

2796
01:15:20,583 --> 01:15:21,958
weapons school guy or state top

2797
01:15:21,958 --> 01:15:23,958
gun, I went to Japan and ended up being

2798
01:15:23,958 --> 01:15:26,291
an air wing strike-ups.

2799
01:15:26,291 --> 01:15:27,458
You accomplish all that.

2800
01:15:27,458 --> 01:15:29,541
Each one of those is something that

2801
01:15:29,541 --> 01:15:31,375
potentially does define a person.

2802
01:15:31,375 --> 01:15:34,375
Those are all incredible accomplishments

2803
01:15:34,375 --> 01:15:36,208
and never mind the fact

2804
01:15:36,208 --> 01:15:38,041
that you may be the first

2805
01:15:38,041 --> 01:15:41,583
person to attack, engage a UAP.

2806
01:15:41,583 --> 01:15:43,291
I said that to a guy.

2807
01:15:43,375 --> 01:15:45,458
I was doing a project at

2808
01:15:45,458 --> 01:15:46,916
a government organization.

2809
01:15:46,916 --> 01:15:48,333
I won't tell.

2810
01:15:48,333 --> 01:15:52,291
It's a five letter organization.

2811
01:15:52,291 --> 01:15:58,958
We were doing some of the combat stuff.

2812
01:15:58,958 --> 01:15:59,666
I was sitting there.

2813
01:15:59,666 --> 01:16:00,708
We were talking about the future.

2814
01:16:00,708 --> 01:16:02,083
I said, "Well, I actually went two circle

2815
01:16:02,083 --> 01:16:03,916
with a 10th gen fighter."

2816
01:16:03,916 --> 01:16:05,166
We're on a fifth gen fighter.

2817
01:16:05,166 --> 01:16:05,958
He looked at me and goes, "You know,

2818
01:16:05,958 --> 01:16:08,041
Dave, that's actually probably true.

2819
01:16:08,041 --> 01:16:09,291
You're probably the only person on the

2820
01:16:09,291 --> 01:16:09,958
planet that's done that."

2821
01:16:09,958 --> 01:16:10,541
I said, "Yeah."

2822
01:16:10,541 --> 01:16:11,375
I said, "I went two circle

2823
01:16:11,375 --> 01:16:12,250
with a 10th gen fighter."

2824
01:16:12,250 --> 01:16:12,833
It bugged.

2825
01:16:13,250 --> 01:16:15,166
I figured out it was me and it left.

2826
01:16:15,166 --> 01:16:17,750
I got to pump my ego up a little bit.

2827
01:16:17,750 --> 01:16:20,500
That was the joke on the airplane comic.

2828
01:16:20,500 --> 01:16:21,791
You've had a successful

2829
01:16:21,791 --> 01:16:24,166
career too after the Navy.

2830
01:16:24,166 --> 01:16:27,416
You have a lovely wife and a bunch of

2831
01:16:27,416 --> 01:16:29,708
successful children.

2832
01:16:29,708 --> 01:16:31,125
All of these, I think, would be

2833
01:16:31,125 --> 01:16:31,916
individually something

2834
01:16:31,916 --> 01:16:34,500
that would define somebody.

2835
01:16:34,500 --> 01:16:35,416
You've said a lot of ways how

2836
01:16:35,416 --> 01:16:37,333
you don't want to be defined.

2837
01:16:37,333 --> 01:16:38,000
Have you thought about

2838
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:40,291
how you do want to be?

2839
01:16:40,291 --> 01:16:41,083
Yeah.

2840
01:16:41,083 --> 01:16:42,125
Yeah, I do.

2841
01:16:42,958 --> 01:16:46,125
Usually, husband, dad, now grandpa.

2842
01:16:46,125 --> 01:16:46,750
Grandpa.

2843
01:16:46,750 --> 01:16:47,625
Congratulations.

2844
01:16:47,625 --> 01:16:51,291
She'll be here next week on Wednesday.

2845
01:16:51,291 --> 01:16:57,375
You know that, but for me, it's hard to

2846
01:16:57,375 --> 01:16:59,000
get everybody to be

2847
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:02,083
100% because there's always

2848
01:17:02,083 --> 01:17:05,750
someone that thinks you're an a-hole.

2849
01:17:05,750 --> 01:17:09,166
Just an all around good, generous person.

2850
01:17:09,958 --> 01:17:11,958
I like to do things for

2851
01:17:11,958 --> 01:17:14,125
people without telling me.

2852
01:17:14,125 --> 01:17:17,791
I just did something for a young boy.

2853
01:17:17,791 --> 01:17:22,291
He was big into aviation.

2854
01:17:22,291 --> 01:17:24,916
His teacher knew me.

2855
01:17:24,916 --> 01:17:26,750
She had said, "Hey, this kid is

2856
01:17:26,750 --> 01:17:27,458
just—he's eight

2857
01:17:27,458 --> 01:17:28,791
years old, a second grader.

2858
01:17:28,791 --> 01:17:31,000
This kid is obsessed with

2859
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:32,791
aviation, like obsessed."

2860
01:17:32,791 --> 01:17:33,500
I went and he went to

2861
01:17:33,500 --> 01:17:35,416
the same school as me.

2862
01:17:35,416 --> 01:17:38,500
I said, she goes, "Hey, she's actually

2863
01:17:38,500 --> 01:17:39,500
really, really good friends with my wife.

2864
01:17:39,541 --> 01:17:41,000
We all went to high school together."

2865
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:44,000
She said, "Hey, can Dave

2866
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:45,000
put something together?"

2867
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:46,500
I'm like, "Yeah, just give me a picture."

2868
01:17:46,500 --> 01:17:48,375
I said, "Yeah."

2869
01:17:48,375 --> 01:17:52,375
I called one of my JOs from '41 who has

2870
01:17:52,375 --> 01:17:53,166
done multiple tours with

2871
01:17:53,166 --> 01:17:55,291
the Blues and Blues and

2872
01:17:55,291 --> 01:17:55,916
Pensacola.

2873
01:17:55,916 --> 01:17:57,208
I said, "Hey, dude,

2874
01:17:57,208 --> 01:17:58,083
can you get me a litho?"

2875
01:17:58,083 --> 01:17:59,500
You know the Blues lithos.

2876
01:17:59,500 --> 01:18:01,291
I said, "Hey, can you get me a litho

2877
01:18:01,291 --> 01:18:02,750
personalized for this kid?

2878
01:18:02,750 --> 01:18:04,041
I want to hook this kid up and then I'll

2879
01:18:04,041 --> 01:18:05,708
send him some other stuff."

2880
01:18:05,708 --> 01:18:07,833
He's like, "Be my honor."

2881
01:18:08,375 --> 01:18:09,416
We're waiting and it's getting to the end

2882
01:18:09,416 --> 01:18:10,250
of the year and he

2883
01:18:10,250 --> 01:18:11,500
calls me and he says, "Hey,

2884
01:18:11,500 --> 01:18:12,000
did you get that?"

2885
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:12,416
I said, "No."

2886
01:18:12,416 --> 01:18:13,041
He goes, "Man, they sent

2887
01:18:13,041 --> 01:18:13,708
it like two weeks ago."

2888
01:18:13,708 --> 01:18:16,416
I go, "Dude, I need it like in two days

2889
01:18:16,416 --> 01:18:17,208
because school's going to

2890
01:18:17,208 --> 01:18:17,875
end and they want to give

2891
01:18:17,875 --> 01:18:21,000
it to them before school's up."

2892
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:21,958
Sure enough, two days

2893
01:18:21,958 --> 01:18:23,375
later, envelope shows up.

2894
01:18:23,375 --> 01:18:24,375
It's got the litho.

2895
01:18:24,375 --> 01:18:25,833
It's got two other pictures

2896
01:18:25,833 --> 01:18:28,000
of the Blues with Fat Albert.

2897
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:31,458
It's got the 2023 yearbook.

2898
01:18:31,458 --> 01:18:33,416
I go in and I found some of my stuff.

2899
01:18:33,416 --> 01:18:35,875
I had a top gun patch, a real top gun

2900
01:18:35,875 --> 01:18:37,541
patch, not the fake ones you buy online.

2901
01:18:38,500 --> 01:18:40,000
A sticker for top gun.

2902
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:43,041
I wrote him a letter and I put some

2903
01:18:43,041 --> 01:18:44,375
patches, some of mine,

2904
01:18:44,375 --> 01:18:45,833
one of my ones, the squadron

2905
01:18:45,833 --> 01:18:46,458
stuff because he likes

2906
01:18:46,458 --> 01:18:47,375
to dress up as pilot.

2907
01:18:47,375 --> 01:18:49,416
He did that for Halloween.

2908
01:18:49,416 --> 01:18:50,833
I sent it to him.

2909
01:18:50,833 --> 01:18:51,541
I said, "Hey, these are this."

2910
01:18:51,541 --> 01:18:52,791
I told him what everything was too.

2911
01:18:52,791 --> 01:18:54,375
This is this game of squadron coin from

2912
01:18:54,375 --> 01:18:55,500
'41 that I had laying around.

2913
01:18:55,500 --> 01:18:57,000
I put all this stuff together for this

2914
01:18:57,000 --> 01:18:58,458
kid because for me,

2915
01:18:58,458 --> 01:18:59,791
it's motivating the youth.

2916
01:18:59,791 --> 01:19:01,166
That's the future.

2917
01:19:01,166 --> 01:19:02,333
I wrote him this nice letter saying,

2918
01:19:02,333 --> 01:19:04,791
"Hey, Thomas, I know

2919
01:19:04,791 --> 01:19:05,625
your teacher told me you're

2920
01:19:05,625 --> 01:19:06,458
a huge aviation buff."

2921
01:19:06,500 --> 01:19:07,791
I said, "But there's a lot more that you

2922
01:19:07,791 --> 01:19:09,125
and I have in common.

2923
01:19:09,125 --> 01:19:11,625
I went to the same school as you and at

2924
01:19:11,625 --> 01:19:13,333
five years old, I became

2925
01:19:13,333 --> 01:19:14,583
obsessed when I watched

2926
01:19:14,583 --> 01:19:15,916
the Neil Armstrong walk on the moon,

2927
01:19:15,916 --> 01:19:17,750
which is how old I am."

2928
01:19:17,750 --> 01:19:18,791
That's what cued me in

2929
01:19:18,791 --> 01:19:20,875
that I wanted to fly.

2930
01:19:20,875 --> 01:19:21,625
It was basically

2931
01:19:21,625 --> 01:19:22,708
like, "Follow your dreams.

2932
01:19:22,708 --> 01:19:24,291
Don't ever let anyone tell you no.

2933
01:19:24,291 --> 01:19:25,541
Just keep going, keep going, keep going."

2934
01:19:25,541 --> 01:19:26,041
I wrote him this.

2935
01:19:26,041 --> 01:19:26,791
It's a pretty big letter.

2936
01:19:26,791 --> 01:19:28,416
I can just let you see it.

2937
01:19:28,416 --> 01:19:29,500
I wrote him a letter.

2938
01:19:29,500 --> 01:19:31,208
I didn't ask for any recognition.

2939
01:19:31,208 --> 01:19:32,583
I put it all in an

2940
01:19:32,583 --> 01:19:34,958
envelope and we mailed it off.

2941
01:19:35,333 --> 01:19:37,583
If you want to define me, I want to be

2942
01:19:37,583 --> 01:19:38,583
defined by acts of

2943
01:19:38,583 --> 01:19:40,250
kindness like that, not acts of

2944
01:19:40,250 --> 01:19:41,708
kindness where I get recognition, just

2945
01:19:41,708 --> 01:19:42,500
acts of kindness of

2946
01:19:42,500 --> 01:19:44,875
helping people succeed.

2947
01:19:44,875 --> 01:19:47,666
I did it in the Navy to try and help my

2948
01:19:47,666 --> 01:19:48,375
sailors get to where they

2949
01:19:48,375 --> 01:19:49,208
want to, get them the orders

2950
01:19:49,208 --> 01:19:50,291
that they wanted to help

2951
01:19:50,291 --> 01:19:52,416
them be successful in life.

2952
01:19:52,416 --> 01:19:54,125
I've done it here.

2953
01:19:54,125 --> 01:19:56,041
People don't need to know I do it, but

2954
01:19:56,041 --> 01:19:56,625
the people that are

2955
01:19:56,625 --> 01:19:57,708
like, "Hey, can you help me

2956
01:19:57,708 --> 01:19:57,875
out?"

2957
01:19:57,875 --> 01:19:59,500
It's like, "Yeah, that's

2958
01:19:59,500 --> 01:20:00,500
how I want to be known."

2959
01:20:00,500 --> 01:20:01,416
To me, that's more important.

2960
01:20:01,666 --> 01:20:03,958
One of the ways I've personally defined

2961
01:20:03,958 --> 01:20:05,791
leadership is enabling

2962
01:20:05,791 --> 01:20:07,708
others in a way that's best for

2963
01:20:07,708 --> 01:20:11,291
them as individuals, not necessarily for

2964
01:20:11,291 --> 01:20:13,833
organization, but on a personal level.

2965
01:20:13,833 --> 01:20:14,541
You've done that, I

2966
01:20:14,541 --> 01:20:16,000
think, as a commanding officer.

2967
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:17,791
I think I've known you well enough to say

2968
01:20:17,791 --> 01:20:18,625
that you have a

2969
01:20:18,625 --> 01:20:20,458
personal leadership style.

2970
01:20:20,458 --> 01:20:21,916
That's very engaging and direct of

2971
01:20:21,916 --> 01:20:22,791
one-on-one, and I've seen

2972
01:20:22,791 --> 01:20:24,458
you do that professionally as

2973
01:20:24,458 --> 01:20:26,500
well with subordinates, and they really

2974
01:20:26,500 --> 01:20:28,041
respect you for that.

2975
01:20:28,583 --> 01:20:30,833
I see yourself, when you reach back and

2976
01:20:30,833 --> 01:20:31,958
explain that to me about

2977
01:20:31,958 --> 01:20:33,583
how you're reaching out to

2978
01:20:33,583 --> 01:20:35,125
what I would say is the next generation

2979
01:20:35,125 --> 01:20:36,083
and providing that same

2980
01:20:36,083 --> 01:20:38,250
mentorship, I would almost

2981
01:20:38,250 --> 01:20:40,291
say that's one way to define it.

2982
01:20:40,291 --> 01:20:42,500
Someone that is very giving and that is

2983
01:20:42,500 --> 01:20:43,458
very eager to see the

2984
01:20:43,458 --> 01:20:44,458
next generation grow up,

2985
01:20:44,458 --> 01:20:46,416
and you can maximize your leadership

2986
01:20:46,416 --> 01:20:48,708
effectiveness by

2987
01:20:48,708 --> 01:20:51,708
influencing that next generation.

2988
01:20:51,708 --> 01:20:53,708
Funny you say that, and I appreciate you

2989
01:20:53,708 --> 01:20:55,458
saying that because I was

2990
01:20:55,458 --> 01:20:55,791
fortunate enough to work

2991
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:59,333
for just some of the best people, so I

2992
01:20:59,333 --> 01:21:01,500
had a boss in the Navy,

2993
01:21:01,500 --> 01:21:02,166
one of the best leaders

2994
01:21:02,166 --> 01:21:06,791
I ever worked for, God rest his soul.

2995
01:21:06,791 --> 01:21:09,708
He had to make a choice.

2996
01:21:09,708 --> 01:21:12,125
He was pre-selected for major command,

2997
01:21:12,125 --> 01:21:12,958
which is air wing

2998
01:21:12,958 --> 01:21:14,125
commander, good chance he would

2999
01:21:14,125 --> 01:21:17,000
have made flag, went on, just a super,

3000
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:20,083
super talented individual.

3001
01:21:20,083 --> 01:21:21,000
But he had moved his

3002
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:22,500
daughter like 13 times.

3003
01:21:22,500 --> 01:21:23,791
She was 13 years old.

3004
01:21:23,791 --> 01:21:24,666
His family had been all over.

3005
01:21:24,875 --> 01:21:27,833
You know how it is with the Navy.

3006
01:21:27,833 --> 01:21:29,291
He elected to go.

3007
01:21:29,291 --> 01:21:30,083
He was really smart.

3008
01:21:30,083 --> 01:21:31,291
He had a master's.

3009
01:21:31,291 --> 01:21:32,875
He was a Naval Academy grad, had a

3010
01:21:32,875 --> 01:21:33,583
master's from the

3011
01:21:33,583 --> 01:21:36,125
Kennedy School at Harvard.

3012
01:21:36,125 --> 01:21:39,583
I actually took him back in January

3013
01:21:39,583 --> 01:21:40,750
really cold back so he

3014
01:21:40,750 --> 01:21:42,500
could talk to the PhD program

3015
01:21:42,500 --> 01:21:43,958
because he wanted to do the professional

3016
01:21:43,958 --> 01:21:45,375
military instructor job.

3017
01:21:45,375 --> 01:21:47,500
Professional military instructor is you

3018
01:21:47,500 --> 01:21:48,500
basically get your PhD

3019
01:21:48,500 --> 01:21:49,500
and then you go back and you

3020
01:21:49,500 --> 01:21:51,166
finish off your time to 30 years.

3021
01:21:51,625 --> 01:21:52,833
He was pretty senior at this time because

3022
01:21:52,833 --> 01:21:56,041
he was a post command O5, which is really

3023
01:21:56,041 --> 01:21:56,416
rare.

3024
01:21:56,416 --> 01:22:00,500
A post command aviator, tactical aviator,

3025
01:22:00,500 --> 01:22:02,208
he was that 14 guy

3026
01:22:02,208 --> 01:22:04,583
flying super hornets now

3027
01:22:04,583 --> 01:22:05,666
to go back to the Naval Academy because

3028
01:22:05,666 --> 01:22:06,458
you didn't have those

3029
01:22:06,458 --> 01:22:07,291
people going to the Naval

3030
01:22:07,291 --> 01:22:08,333
Academy when I was there.

3031
01:22:08,333 --> 01:22:09,916
So he looked at me one day because he was

3032
01:22:09,916 --> 01:22:10,625
going to do this and

3033
01:22:10,625 --> 01:22:12,000
he ended up, he got into

3034
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:13,000
Harvard but he turned it down and he

3035
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:13,791
ended up going to the

3036
01:22:13,791 --> 01:22:15,125
University of Maryland and

3037
01:22:15,125 --> 01:22:17,541
worked with a lot of the former very

3038
01:22:17,541 --> 01:22:19,083
senior government like DOD

3039
01:22:19,083 --> 01:22:19,916
folks that were his mentors

3040
01:22:20,083 --> 01:22:22,541
as he went through this leadership PhD.

3041
01:22:22,541 --> 01:22:23,916
Then he finished up his time.

3042
01:22:23,916 --> 01:22:26,083
He ran the leadership department at Navy.

3043
01:22:26,083 --> 01:22:27,458
He ended up sitting, I think the ethics

3044
01:22:27,458 --> 01:22:28,458
chair at West Point and

3045
01:22:28,458 --> 01:22:29,458
did a bunch of stuff and

3046
01:22:29,458 --> 01:22:34,208
then unfortunately he passed away at his

3047
01:22:34,208 --> 01:22:38,375
own hand, believe it or not.

3048
01:22:38,375 --> 01:22:41,916
But he asked me one day, he said, do you

3049
01:22:41,916 --> 01:22:43,041
think I'm doing the right thing?

3050
01:22:43,041 --> 01:22:45,250
Because I was kind of his sounding board

3051
01:22:45,250 --> 01:22:46,125
and I was sitting in his office.

3052
01:22:46,125 --> 01:22:47,208
I would go down there once a week, just

3053
01:22:47,208 --> 01:22:47,708
sit in his office,

3054
01:22:47,708 --> 01:22:48,333
close the door and he would

3055
01:22:48,333 --> 01:22:49,125
just talk.

3056
01:22:49,416 --> 01:22:50,500
I would just sit there and listen to him.

3057
01:22:50,500 --> 01:22:52,000
It was like he could vent.

3058
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:54,083
He could vent to me and he said, do you

3059
01:22:54,083 --> 01:22:55,750
think I'm doing the right thing?

3060
01:22:55,750 --> 01:22:59,458
And I said, I do.

3061
01:22:59,458 --> 01:23:00,041
And he said, why?

3062
01:23:00,041 --> 01:23:00,583
I said, well, let me

3063
01:23:00,583 --> 01:23:02,333
put it in this context.

3064
01:23:02,333 --> 01:23:04,958
Let's say you don't do, you just stay the

3065
01:23:04,958 --> 01:23:06,166
normal thing, you air

3066
01:23:06,166 --> 01:23:07,375
wing and you make it

3067
01:23:07,375 --> 01:23:08,291
all the way to four star.

3068
01:23:08,291 --> 01:23:11,166
You become the CNO.

3069
01:23:11,166 --> 01:23:12,166
I said, how many people are

3070
01:23:12,166 --> 01:23:13,041
you really going to influence?

3071
01:23:13,041 --> 01:23:13,666
How many people are you

3072
01:23:13,666 --> 01:23:15,000
going to really remember?

3073
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:15,583
I mean, I spent a lot

3074
01:23:15,583 --> 01:23:16,166
of time in the Navy.

3075
01:23:16,291 --> 01:23:17,666
If you asked me who the CNOs were when I

3076
01:23:17,666 --> 01:23:19,666
was there, I'd be like, I don't know.

3077
01:23:19,666 --> 01:23:20,916
If you asked me who all the other

3078
01:23:20,916 --> 01:23:22,125
animals, I go, I don't know.

3079
01:23:22,125 --> 01:23:22,750
I really don't.

3080
01:23:22,750 --> 01:23:24,041
I didn't care.

3081
01:23:24,041 --> 01:23:24,708
They didn't, because they

3082
01:23:24,708 --> 01:23:26,083
don't directly influence me.

3083
01:23:26,083 --> 01:23:28,916
I said, now you go the other path that

3084
01:23:28,916 --> 01:23:29,541
you're doing and you go

3085
01:23:29,541 --> 01:23:30,583
to the Naval Academy, you

3086
01:23:30,583 --> 01:23:33,375
spend the last five years of your career

3087
01:23:33,375 --> 01:23:35,125
teaching with your background.

3088
01:23:35,125 --> 01:23:36,375
Your retirers are no six, but you're

3089
01:23:36,375 --> 01:23:39,000
going to teach midshipmen.

3090
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:40,458
So if you're there for five years, you're

3091
01:23:40,458 --> 01:23:41,500
going to have access

3092
01:23:41,500 --> 01:23:43,583
to basically 8,000 plus

3093
01:23:43,583 --> 01:23:46,000
midshipmen over the time.

3094
01:23:46,833 --> 01:23:47,916
Everyone's going to know who you are

3095
01:23:47,916 --> 01:23:48,666
because you're that kind of leader.

3096
01:23:48,666 --> 01:23:50,875
He's very personably super nice.

3097
01:23:50,875 --> 01:23:52,000
He's a tactical guy.

3098
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:53,208
I mean, he flew the pointy

3099
01:23:53,208 --> 01:23:57,125
nose jets off the big flat boat.

3100
01:23:57,125 --> 01:23:58,875
I said, what's your impact going to be?

3101
01:23:58,875 --> 01:24:00,208
If you stay in and make four star when

3102
01:24:00,208 --> 01:24:01,083
you get out, the memory

3103
01:24:01,083 --> 01:24:02,666
of you will fade rapidly.

3104
01:24:02,666 --> 01:24:04,375
You'll go do what you do.

3105
01:24:04,375 --> 01:24:06,166
I said, but if you influence 8,000

3106
01:24:06,166 --> 01:24:07,208
midshipmen, and even if you

3107
01:24:07,208 --> 01:24:08,041
don't come, you'll come in

3108
01:24:08,041 --> 01:24:08,791
touch with at least half.

3109
01:24:08,791 --> 01:24:10,125
So you got 4,000 midshipmen.

3110
01:24:10,125 --> 01:24:11,791
Of those 4,000 midshipmen, some of them

3111
01:24:11,791 --> 01:24:12,583
are going to go on to be

3112
01:24:12,583 --> 01:24:13,875
four stars 30 years from

3113
01:24:13,875 --> 01:24:15,000
now.

3114
01:24:15,500 --> 01:24:16,833
They're going to take what you taught

3115
01:24:16,833 --> 01:24:17,875
them because I'm a big

3116
01:24:17,875 --> 01:24:19,375
believer that you take away

3117
01:24:19,375 --> 01:24:20,083
a part of everyone that

3118
01:24:20,083 --> 01:24:21,833
you meet, good or bad.

3119
01:24:21,833 --> 01:24:23,500
I said, you're going to influence those

3120
01:24:23,500 --> 01:24:25,541
young leaders that are

3121
01:24:25,541 --> 01:24:27,000
going to carry what you taught

3122
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:29,041
them for 30 years in the Navy.

3123
01:24:29,041 --> 01:24:31,250
We'll be long gone, dude.

3124
01:24:31,250 --> 01:24:32,125
We won't even know if we're

3125
01:24:32,125 --> 01:24:32,958
coming or gone at that time.

3126
01:24:32,958 --> 01:24:35,125
I said, now ask me if you made the right

3127
01:24:35,125 --> 01:24:35,833
decision on the impact that

3128
01:24:35,833 --> 01:24:36,583
you're going to have overall

3129
01:24:36,583 --> 01:24:37,833
for the Navy.

3130
01:24:37,833 --> 01:24:38,583
And he looked at me and he

3131
01:24:38,583 --> 01:24:41,791
said, I love talking to you.

3132
01:24:41,791 --> 01:24:43,500
He said, because you're absolutely right.

3133
01:24:43,625 --> 01:24:46,416
He said, I can tell you my Naval Academy

3134
01:24:46,416 --> 01:24:49,083
profs that had an

3135
01:24:49,083 --> 01:24:51,000
impact on me to this day.

3136
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:52,500
And that was 30, we were

3137
01:24:52,500 --> 01:24:54,166
doing our 35th this year.

3138
01:24:54,166 --> 01:24:56,833
So 35 years ago, I mean, I know the ones

3139
01:24:56,833 --> 01:24:57,500
who I looked at and

3140
01:24:57,500 --> 01:24:58,750
said, that guy, I liked him.

3141
01:24:58,750 --> 01:25:00,333
I liked his style.

3142
01:25:00,333 --> 01:25:01,333
I know my commanding

3143
01:25:01,333 --> 01:25:04,875
officers at the 05 command level.

3144
01:25:04,875 --> 01:25:06,833
Most of the other ones above were more

3145
01:25:06,833 --> 01:25:08,291
figureheads than the guys

3146
01:25:08,291 --> 01:25:09,250
that actually influenced me

3147
01:25:09,250 --> 01:25:10,166
and molded me.

3148
01:25:11,041 --> 01:25:14,958
So that's kind of that point of giving to

3149
01:25:14,958 --> 01:25:15,583
the young ones,

3150
01:25:15,583 --> 01:25:16,291
because those are the ones

3151
01:25:16,291 --> 01:25:17,791
that are going to carry on the legacy

3152
01:25:17,791 --> 01:25:21,125
longer than your peers.

3153
01:25:21,125 --> 01:25:22,625
It's just like the people that go, you

3154
01:25:22,625 --> 01:25:24,166
go, who has the most influence?

3155
01:25:24,166 --> 01:25:26,291
The business leader?

3156
01:25:26,291 --> 01:25:27,500
He's like Zuckerberg.

3157
01:25:27,500 --> 01:25:28,291
He runs Facebook.

3158
01:25:28,291 --> 01:25:28,833
He's billionaire.

3159
01:25:28,833 --> 01:25:30,875
He's successful.

3160
01:25:30,875 --> 01:25:31,625
Or the high school

3161
01:25:31,625 --> 01:25:34,208
teacher that really cares.

3162
01:25:35,750 --> 01:25:39,041
The sports coach that it's not just about

3163
01:25:39,041 --> 01:25:39,666
always winning, but

3164
01:25:39,666 --> 01:25:41,291
it's about helping you

3165
01:25:41,291 --> 01:25:42,833
grow, the individual grow

3166
01:25:42,833 --> 01:25:45,208
into a productive adult.

3167
01:25:45,208 --> 01:25:46,333
Who's better?

3168
01:25:46,333 --> 01:25:49,375
I'd say the high school

3169
01:25:49,375 --> 01:25:51,583
teacher or the elementary school.

3170
01:25:51,583 --> 01:25:52,708
Like I still know, I had

3171
01:25:52,708 --> 01:25:54,333
one of the kids call me.

3172
01:25:54,333 --> 01:25:56,083
My football coach's son

3173
01:25:56,083 --> 01:25:57,208
called me about the UFO stuff.

3174
01:25:57,208 --> 01:25:58,208
I knew him when he was a little, he's

3175
01:25:58,208 --> 01:25:58,666
about, I don't know,

3176
01:25:58,666 --> 01:25:59,416
he was younger than me.

3177
01:25:59,416 --> 01:26:01,208
His mom was one of my teachers.

3178
01:26:01,208 --> 01:26:01,833
Then I was talking to him.

3179
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:04,666
I said, "Hey, when you see your mom, tell

3180
01:26:04,666 --> 01:26:05,416
her thanks that she

3181
01:26:05,416 --> 01:26:06,583
was probably," and she

3182
01:26:06,583 --> 01:26:10,500
is to this day, Mrs. Gichardo, I'll

3183
01:26:10,500 --> 01:26:12,458
mention her, probably one

3184
01:26:12,458 --> 01:26:13,500
of the best teachers I ever

3185
01:26:13,500 --> 01:26:14,583
had all the way through

3186
01:26:14,583 --> 01:26:15,916
college, masters, all that stuff.

3187
01:26:15,916 --> 01:26:17,208
She was amazing.

3188
01:26:17,208 --> 01:26:18,541
She cared.

3189
01:26:18,541 --> 01:26:21,416
And she was always there if I needed

3190
01:26:21,416 --> 01:26:21,791
something when you're

3191
01:26:21,791 --> 01:26:22,875
doing all the paperwork to do

3192
01:26:22,875 --> 01:26:23,166
stuff.

3193
01:26:23,166 --> 01:26:23,958
She was always there for me.

3194
01:26:23,958 --> 01:26:26,791
And I go, "That's the

3195
01:26:26,791 --> 01:26:27,291
impact you want to have.

3196
01:26:27,291 --> 01:26:28,291
That's what you want to be remembered."

3197
01:26:28,916 --> 01:26:30,791
Sadly, you don't realize those people are

3198
01:26:30,791 --> 01:26:31,625
performing that role

3199
01:26:31,625 --> 01:26:33,458
until you look back often.

3200
01:26:33,458 --> 01:26:34,875
No, you don't.

3201
01:26:34,875 --> 01:26:38,083
But being kind to people's, I always use

3202
01:26:38,083 --> 01:26:39,333
my grandfather's funeral.

3203
01:26:39,333 --> 01:26:41,625
My grandfather was a beer delivery guy.

3204
01:26:41,625 --> 01:26:42,500
Beer delivery guy?

3205
01:26:42,500 --> 01:26:43,500
He was a beer delivery guy.

3206
01:26:43,500 --> 01:26:43,750
He did.

3207
01:26:43,750 --> 01:26:47,291
He drove the beer truck and a great guy.

3208
01:26:47,291 --> 01:26:48,375
He was the one who always told me,

3209
01:26:48,375 --> 01:26:49,875
"You're not better than

3210
01:26:49,875 --> 01:26:50,583
anyone and no one's better

3211
01:26:50,583 --> 01:26:51,125
than you."

3212
01:26:51,125 --> 01:26:52,000
He goes, "It's not

3213
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:52,625
money or anything else.

3214
01:26:52,625 --> 01:26:54,750
It's the person that you are."

3215
01:26:54,750 --> 01:26:56,458
And he was a normal guy.

3216
01:26:56,916 --> 01:26:58,375
I was fortunate enough that he was my

3217
01:26:58,375 --> 01:26:59,750
grandfather, so sorry to

3218
01:26:59,750 --> 01:27:01,125
everyone that he wasn't.

3219
01:27:01,125 --> 01:27:03,125
But when he died, think

3220
01:27:03,125 --> 01:27:04,708
anything of it, he's a normal guy.

3221
01:27:04,708 --> 01:27:06,583
Grew up poor.

3222
01:27:06,583 --> 01:27:08,375
He was the first one, I think first or

3223
01:27:08,375 --> 01:27:09,375
second one born in the United States.

3224
01:27:09,375 --> 01:27:11,250
Everyone else came from Sicily.

3225
01:27:11,250 --> 01:27:11,833
So he comes over here.

3226
01:27:11,833 --> 01:27:12,250
He does that.

3227
01:27:12,250 --> 01:27:14,541
When he dies, the funeral

3228
01:27:14,541 --> 01:27:16,375
procession was miles long.

3229
01:27:16,375 --> 01:27:17,833
There was no room in the church.

3230
01:27:17,833 --> 01:27:19,875
There was standing room outside.

3231
01:27:19,875 --> 01:27:21,875
The aisles were all ... It was just

3232
01:27:21,875 --> 01:27:22,833
completely ... And this is

3233
01:27:22,833 --> 01:27:23,791
really the first real funeral

3234
01:27:23,791 --> 01:27:24,333
I went to.

3235
01:27:24,708 --> 01:27:27,750
I said, "This is the norm."

3236
01:27:27,750 --> 01:27:29,083
Someone actually, I think, asked my mom

3237
01:27:29,083 --> 01:27:30,625
or my aunt who died the pope.

3238
01:27:30,625 --> 01:27:31,500
They're like, "No."

3239
01:27:31,500 --> 01:27:32,958
They go, "Who was he?"

3240
01:27:32,958 --> 01:27:34,916
She said, "I was my dad."

3241
01:27:34,916 --> 01:27:35,583
They said, "What'd he do?"

3242
01:27:35,583 --> 01:27:37,791
They go, "He was a beer delivery guy."

3243
01:27:37,791 --> 01:27:39,500
But he was so kind to

3244
01:27:39,500 --> 01:27:44,291
people, completely unbiased.

3245
01:27:44,291 --> 01:27:47,166
During the '60s, he was the one guy

3246
01:27:47,166 --> 01:27:48,500
taking the beer down into

3247
01:27:48,500 --> 01:27:49,541
the minority neighborhoods

3248
01:27:49,541 --> 01:27:51,041
when the riots were going on and the guys

3249
01:27:51,041 --> 01:27:52,458
were protecting him.

3250
01:27:53,750 --> 01:27:54,708
When he died, you go,

3251
01:27:54,708 --> 01:27:55,666
"Wow, all these people."

3252
01:27:55,666 --> 01:27:57,458
And everyone was there.

3253
01:27:57,458 --> 01:27:59,000
There was mafia people there.

3254
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:02,125
The head of the Black Panthers was there.

3255
01:28:02,125 --> 01:28:03,458
To see ... I'm just like,

3256
01:28:03,458 --> 01:28:04,375
"I'm a high school kid."

3257
01:28:04,375 --> 01:28:06,166
I'm thinking, "Oh, yeah.

3258
01:28:06,166 --> 01:28:06,333
Well, yeah.

3259
01:28:06,333 --> 01:28:08,875
Grandpa was a great guy."

3260
01:28:08,875 --> 01:28:11,375
His legacy was far more because there's

3261
01:28:11,375 --> 01:28:12,125
filthy, filthy rich

3262
01:28:12,125 --> 01:28:13,125
people that are successful in

3263
01:28:13,125 --> 01:28:15,583
business that die and nobody's there.

3264
01:28:15,583 --> 01:28:17,375
We're there because they want a piece.

3265
01:28:17,375 --> 01:28:19,041
He wasn't giving anybody anything.

3266
01:28:19,041 --> 01:28:20,000
It was really just

3267
01:28:20,000 --> 01:28:21,208
people paying their respect.

3268
01:28:22,125 --> 01:28:22,833
I doubt I would ever

3269
01:28:22,833 --> 01:28:24,250
have anything like that.

3270
01:28:24,250 --> 01:28:26,166
If I just impact the lives of people and

3271
01:28:26,166 --> 01:28:27,458
they go, "Yeah, I made

3272
01:28:27,458 --> 01:28:28,416
a difference in my life.

3273
01:28:28,416 --> 01:28:30,208
That's all I care about."

3274
01:28:30,208 --> 01:28:33,250
My kids are living an example of that.

3275
01:28:33,250 --> 01:28:35,791
They're doing quite well for themselves.

3276
01:28:35,791 --> 01:28:36,333
Hopefully, my

3277
01:28:36,333 --> 01:28:38,916
granddaughter has that same thing.

3278
01:28:38,916 --> 01:28:40,208
That's all I care about.

3279
01:28:40,208 --> 01:28:42,083
Well, Dave, thanks for the impact you've

3280
01:28:42,083 --> 01:28:43,541
made on my life and the

3281
01:28:43,541 --> 01:28:44,541
impact you've made on other

3282
01:28:44,541 --> 01:28:46,875
people's lives through your experiences.

3283
01:28:46,875 --> 01:28:48,375
I know a good thing when I see it.

3284
01:28:48,375 --> 01:28:51,083
That's why I gave you a job.

3285
01:28:52,375 --> 01:28:54,541
So yeah, it's just

3286
01:28:54,541 --> 01:28:56,333
you can see good people.

3287
01:28:56,333 --> 01:28:57,708
I think everyone provides value.

3288
01:28:57,708 --> 01:28:58,541
You just have to put

3289
01:28:58,541 --> 01:29:00,166
them in the right spot.

3290
01:29:00,166 --> 01:29:02,583
So don't judge people.

3291
01:29:02,583 --> 01:29:03,541
Don't put them in a box because they

3292
01:29:03,541 --> 01:29:04,875
don't fit your mold.

3293
01:29:04,875 --> 01:29:05,958
It's an unconscious

3294
01:29:05,958 --> 01:29:07,083
bias that we all have.

3295
01:29:07,083 --> 01:29:07,916
I'm guilty of it.

3296
01:29:07,916 --> 01:29:09,041
I'm not going to lie.

3297
01:29:09,041 --> 01:29:10,583
Everyone's that way.

3298
01:29:10,583 --> 01:29:12,375
But then you've got to step back when you

3299
01:29:12,375 --> 01:29:15,250
find yourself doing that, going, "Okay."

3300
01:29:15,250 --> 01:29:16,750
So let me ask, Dave, where do you think

3301
01:29:16,750 --> 01:29:19,583
this story goes in the next five years?

3302
01:29:20,458 --> 01:29:23,041
I think, personally, I should say I think

3303
01:29:23,041 --> 01:29:23,750
and I hope that

3304
01:29:23,750 --> 01:29:26,041
there's going to be a rollout

3305
01:29:26,041 --> 01:29:26,833
disclosure.

3306
01:29:26,833 --> 01:29:27,375
I don't think they're

3307
01:29:27,375 --> 01:29:28,750
going to dump it all at once.

3308
01:29:28,750 --> 01:29:30,041
I'm not going to lift up the garage door

3309
01:29:30,041 --> 01:29:32,000
and go, "Here it is.

3310
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:32,500
There it is.

3311
01:29:32,500 --> 01:29:33,166
We've had it.

3312
01:29:33,166 --> 01:29:35,375
We've had it forever."

3313
01:29:35,375 --> 01:29:35,791
I think you're going

3314
01:29:35,791 --> 01:29:37,791
to see pieces come out.

3315
01:29:37,791 --> 01:29:39,333
Are we already on that process?

3316
01:29:39,333 --> 01:29:40,208
I think we're there.

3317
01:29:40,208 --> 01:29:43,500
I think with the folks that are inside

3318
01:29:43,500 --> 01:29:44,333
that are coming out

3319
01:29:44,333 --> 01:29:45,833
through the whistleblower act,

3320
01:29:45,833 --> 01:29:46,791
thanks to the senators for

3321
01:29:46,791 --> 01:29:49,000
getting that passed into law.

3322
01:29:49,666 --> 01:29:52,375
I think that's a game changer.

3323
01:29:52,375 --> 01:29:54,458
It's literally a game changer because I'm

3324
01:29:54,458 --> 01:29:56,333
telling you, prior to

3325
01:29:56,333 --> 01:29:57,041
2017, they tell you,

3326
01:29:57,041 --> 01:29:57,958
"Man, if you came out and

3327
01:29:57,958 --> 01:29:59,750
said that, you were done."

3328
01:29:59,750 --> 01:30:00,666
No one wanted to talk to you.

3329
01:30:00,666 --> 01:30:04,166
It's like, "Oh, watch

3330
01:30:04,166 --> 01:30:04,833
how you approach it."

3331
01:30:04,833 --> 01:30:06,583
Now it's like, "No big deal.

3332
01:30:06,583 --> 01:30:07,958
They'll call you up on the phone."

3333
01:30:07,958 --> 01:30:10,166
I mean, there's influential people

3334
01:30:10,166 --> 01:30:11,000
outside of government

3335
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:13,541
that are very well financed,

3336
01:30:13,541 --> 01:30:14,958
billionaires that are into this that are

3337
01:30:14,958 --> 01:30:16,166
trying to sway this and

3338
01:30:16,166 --> 01:30:17,750
move it because everyone

3339
01:30:17,750 --> 01:30:18,375
wants to move.

3340
01:30:18,541 --> 01:30:20,083
If they have it, let's move the

3341
01:30:20,083 --> 01:30:22,083
technology because what you

3342
01:30:22,083 --> 01:30:23,375
don't want is someone, like

3343
01:30:23,375 --> 01:30:25,291
I talked to go back to the Nuke story,

3344
01:30:25,291 --> 01:30:26,208
you don't want someone

3345
01:30:26,208 --> 01:30:27,708
to gain the access and

3346
01:30:27,708 --> 01:30:28,791
figure it out that's

3347
01:30:28,791 --> 01:30:31,041
going to do bad with it.

3348
01:30:31,041 --> 01:30:33,583
Once we had it and then you go, "Hey, the

3349
01:30:33,583 --> 01:30:34,375
other countries that

3350
01:30:34,375 --> 01:30:35,583
started to get nuclear

3351
01:30:35,583 --> 01:30:37,041
weapons have that."

3352
01:30:37,041 --> 01:30:37,791
There's still that

3353
01:30:37,791 --> 01:30:39,583
deterrent because we have it too.

3354
01:30:39,583 --> 01:30:41,541
The fear is when we first got it, the

3355
01:30:41,541 --> 01:30:42,250
fear with the rest of

3356
01:30:42,250 --> 01:30:43,541
the world was, "Oh my God,

3357
01:30:43,541 --> 01:30:45,500
they just used it.

3358
01:30:45,500 --> 01:30:45,958
Oh my God, they could."

3359
01:30:45,958 --> 01:30:47,125
Where are they going to stop?

3360
01:30:47,125 --> 01:30:47,458
Yeah.

3361
01:30:48,041 --> 01:30:50,166
I mean, that's not our nature.

3362
01:30:50,166 --> 01:30:52,208
We go in, World War II, we blow

3363
01:30:52,208 --> 01:30:52,875
everything up and then we

3364
01:30:52,875 --> 01:30:53,666
put a bunch of money into it

3365
01:30:53,666 --> 01:30:56,333
to rebuild it.

3366
01:30:56,333 --> 01:30:58,541
It's our nature.

3367
01:30:58,541 --> 01:31:00,625
I like to think there's obviously someone

3368
01:31:00,625 --> 01:31:02,041
that doesn't like the US that's going to

3369
01:31:02,041 --> 01:31:02,833
go, "Ah, it's crap.

3370
01:31:02,833 --> 01:31:03,666
They didn't do anything."

3371
01:31:03,666 --> 01:31:05,625
Well, we did.

3372
01:31:05,625 --> 01:31:08,000
We do put a lot of money out.

3373
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:10,375
I think it's groundbreaking

3374
01:31:10,375 --> 01:31:11,583
what's going on right now.

3375
01:31:11,583 --> 01:31:13,916
I sit back and I watch.

3376
01:31:13,916 --> 01:31:15,958
As you know, we have contacted people

3377
01:31:15,958 --> 01:31:17,125
that are on the inside

3378
01:31:17,125 --> 01:31:17,875
so you get a little feed

3379
01:31:18,333 --> 01:31:21,541
of leaders of what's going on.

3380
01:31:21,541 --> 01:31:23,416
I think we're on the

3381
01:31:23,416 --> 01:31:25,375
precipice of something big.

3382
01:31:25,375 --> 01:31:27,041
I think it's going to happen.

3383
01:31:27,041 --> 01:31:28,000
It's going to happen.

3384
01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:29,041
I'm confident that it

3385
01:31:29,041 --> 01:31:31,041
will happen in my lifetime.

3386
01:31:31,041 --> 01:31:33,250
Everyone knows I'm going to be 59, so I

3387
01:31:33,250 --> 01:31:34,416
got some time, but I

3388
01:31:34,416 --> 01:31:36,250
think it's going to happen

3389
01:31:36,250 --> 01:31:37,541
sooner than later.

3390
01:31:37,541 --> 01:31:40,041
I think hopefully by the time I'm getting

3391
01:31:40,041 --> 01:31:41,125
my social security

3392
01:31:41,125 --> 01:31:44,125
checks that at least we

3393
01:31:44,125 --> 01:31:45,500
know that we have stuff.

3394
01:31:45,666 --> 01:31:48,041
I'm not going to get into the bodies, but

3395
01:31:48,041 --> 01:31:48,875
everything's coming out.

3396
01:31:48,875 --> 01:31:51,916
The whole moment of contact that James

3397
01:31:51,916 --> 01:31:52,666
Fox did about the

3398
01:31:52,666 --> 01:31:55,750
Verzinga, Brazil incident.

3399
01:31:55,750 --> 01:31:56,833
There's another example.

3400
01:31:56,833 --> 01:31:57,750
That's '97.

3401
01:31:57,750 --> 01:31:59,416
Remember, that's right before

3402
01:31:59,416 --> 01:32:01,041
everything's ... Internet was 14.4

3403
01:32:01,041 --> 01:32:02,666
modems, maybe 28.8 back

3404
01:32:02,666 --> 01:32:03,375
then.

3405
01:32:03,375 --> 01:32:03,791
Remember they used to

3406
01:32:03,791 --> 01:32:04,541
have the phone book.

3407
01:32:04,541 --> 01:32:06,166
You could go to the WW.

3408
01:32:06,166 --> 01:32:07,833
Look up, "Oh, I want this."

3409
01:32:07,833 --> 01:32:09,541
It was literally ... That's when Google

3410
01:32:09,541 --> 01:32:13,291
was really becoming the search engine.

3411
01:32:14,083 --> 01:32:14,833
When I didn't have

3412
01:32:14,833 --> 01:32:17,916
'97, I had a flip phone.

3413
01:32:17,916 --> 01:32:18,500
Did I have a flip phone?

3414
01:32:18,500 --> 01:32:19,208
If you had that.

3415
01:32:19,208 --> 01:32:22,458
Oh, I didn't have a cell phone in '97.

3416
01:32:22,458 --> 01:32:23,333
No.

3417
01:32:23,333 --> 01:32:25,000
I wish I had my ... I still have it.

3418
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:25,750
I wish it worked.

3419
01:32:32,500 --> 01:32:27,125
I love my razor.

3420
01:32:32,500 --> 01:32:37,416
With technology and the way the world is

3421
01:32:37,416 --> 01:32:39,708
so connected, I don't

3422
01:32:39,708 --> 01:32:41,291
think you can keep it in

3423
01:32:41,291 --> 01:32:41,875
a box.

3424
01:32:42,208 --> 01:32:43,083
I think in certain countries you can keep

3425
01:32:43,083 --> 01:32:44,000
it in a box because they

3426
01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:45,750
can control the population.

3427
01:32:45,750 --> 01:32:47,541
But in a free speaking world, there's no

3428
01:32:47,541 --> 01:32:49,000
way you're going to keep it in a box.

3429
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:50,000
People are just going to ... They're just

3430
01:32:50,000 --> 01:32:50,666
going to do what they

3431
01:32:50,666 --> 01:32:51,750
do, and they're going

3432
01:32:51,750 --> 01:32:53,750
to get stuff out there.

3433
01:32:53,750 --> 01:32:55,875
As soon as it's posted, once it hits the

3434
01:32:55,875 --> 01:32:57,750
ether, as you know, no

3435
01:32:57,750 --> 01:32:58,791
matter what's like Instagram,

3436
01:32:58,791 --> 01:32:59,791
what's the one that goes away?

3437
01:32:59,791 --> 01:33:01,125
Is it Instagram that you pulls up and

3438
01:33:01,125 --> 01:33:01,791
it's only there for a

3439
01:33:01,791 --> 01:33:02,833
little bit that goes away?

3440
01:33:03,666 --> 01:33:03,083
Snapchat?

3441
01:33:03,666 --> 01:33:05,375
Yeah, you're talking Snapchat.

3442
01:33:05,375 --> 01:33:07,000
Yeah, but people don't realize it comes

3443
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:07,666
up and you go, "Boom,"

3444
01:33:07,666 --> 01:33:09,541
and you capture the picture.

3445
01:33:09,541 --> 01:33:10,166
You can, yeah.

3446
01:33:10,166 --> 01:33:11,000
Yeah, and you can do that.

3447
01:33:11,750 --> 01:33:14,208
Once it's out there, it's out there.

3448
01:33:14,208 --> 01:33:15,750
Which is why I'm glad I grew up without

3449
01:33:15,750 --> 01:33:16,541
cell phones because some

3450
01:33:16,541 --> 01:33:17,166
of the stuff that I did,

3451
01:33:17,166 --> 01:33:18,625
I'm pretty glad that there

3452
01:33:18,625 --> 01:33:20,750
were no cell phones around.

3453
01:33:20,750 --> 01:33:23,375
I think, honestly, I think what you're

3454
01:33:23,375 --> 01:33:24,750
doing is important

3455
01:33:24,750 --> 01:33:26,250
because it's another avenue.

3456
01:33:26,250 --> 01:33:28,125
I also think that the safety of aviation

3457
01:33:28,125 --> 01:33:29,750
is important,

3458
01:33:29,750 --> 01:33:31,125
especially with the ... You look

3459
01:33:31,125 --> 01:33:32,708
at the shortage of pilots, you talk

3460
01:33:32,708 --> 01:33:34,166
airlines, and that one

3461
01:33:34,166 --> 01:33:34,916
government person, it's like,

3462
01:33:34,916 --> 01:33:37,291
"Hey, we'll just produce training."

3463
01:33:37,291 --> 01:33:40,625
No, we're running at like five ... In the

3464
01:33:40,625 --> 01:33:41,333
United States of

3465
01:33:41,333 --> 01:33:41,500
America, major, major, major,

3466
01:33:41,666 --> 01:33:43,000
major airlines, it's like five nines.

3467
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:44,250
It's better than like Six Sigma.

3468
01:33:44,250 --> 01:33:45,875
It's pretty amazing, the safety record

3469
01:33:45,875 --> 01:33:47,375
that we have, the Check

3470
01:33:47,375 --> 01:33:48,166
Six piece to say you could

3471
01:33:48,166 --> 01:33:49,833
fly for like 14,000 years before you

3472
01:33:49,833 --> 01:33:52,541
would have a mishap on major carriers.

3473
01:33:52,541 --> 01:33:54,416
But when you start lowering that, it's

3474
01:33:54,416 --> 01:33:55,375
why when they come out

3475
01:33:55,375 --> 01:33:56,208
and say, "Well, it's all

3476
01:33:56,208 --> 01:33:56,500
DEI.

3477
01:33:56,500 --> 01:33:58,291
We got to do DEI," I said, "No.

3478
01:33:58,291 --> 01:34:00,250
We don't do DEI for sports.

3479
01:34:00,250 --> 01:34:02,791
The NBA, the NFL, the Major League

3480
01:34:02,791 --> 01:34:03,333
Baseball, we don't go out

3481
01:34:03,333 --> 01:34:04,791
and go, "Well, you know what?

3482
01:34:04,791 --> 01:34:06,583
We need this flavor person."

3483
01:34:06,583 --> 01:34:08,500
No, we're looking for the best.

3484
01:34:08,625 --> 01:34:10,416
It's like I don't want someone who got

3485
01:34:10,416 --> 01:34:11,416
selected to be a doctor

3486
01:34:11,416 --> 01:34:13,416
to be, "Well, good enough."

3487
01:34:13,416 --> 01:34:15,375
I want someone that actually worked hard

3488
01:34:15,375 --> 01:34:16,250
and knows what they're

3489
01:34:16,250 --> 01:34:17,500
doing, not, "Oh, we put

3490
01:34:17,500 --> 01:34:18,083
them in.

3491
01:34:18,083 --> 01:34:19,416
It worked."

3492
01:34:19,416 --> 01:34:21,916
I think when you look at that from an

3493
01:34:21,916 --> 01:34:22,791
aviation standpoint, and

3494
01:34:22,791 --> 01:34:23,583
you go to the best, but now

3495
01:34:23,583 --> 01:34:25,375
we've got a shortage because people

3496
01:34:25,375 --> 01:34:27,708
aren't moving that way.

3497
01:34:27,708 --> 01:34:30,041
The fear is over the next 10 or 15 years,

3498
01:34:30,041 --> 01:34:31,041
what happens to the

3499
01:34:31,041 --> 01:34:31,708
quality of people that

3500
01:34:31,708 --> 01:34:33,375
we're pulling out into aviation?

3501
01:34:33,375 --> 01:34:35,000
Because right now, you need 1,500 hours

3502
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:37,000
to get an ATP, but for

3503
01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:37,625
someone that's like a

3504
01:34:38,125 --> 01:34:39,958
civilian pilot, they're up there in a

3505
01:34:39,958 --> 01:34:40,958
couple thousand hours

3506
01:34:40,958 --> 01:34:42,000
before they even get into moving

3507
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:43,708
heavies.

3508
01:34:43,708 --> 01:34:45,000
What happens when ... We have a ...

3509
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:46,000
Standardization is huge, and

3510
01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:47,250
the airlines do an amazing job

3511
01:34:47,250 --> 01:34:50,791
of training people, but as you know,

3512
01:34:50,791 --> 01:34:51,250
aviation is a

3513
01:34:51,250 --> 01:34:54,916
self-cleaning oven, and it's like 90%

3514
01:34:54,916 --> 01:34:56,583
of mishaps from the

3515
01:34:56,583 --> 01:35:00,000
military involve a human factor.

3516
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:01,791
The airplane was actually landable and

3517
01:35:01,791 --> 01:35:02,958
flyable, but they ended up

3518
01:35:02,958 --> 01:35:03,791
ejecting, or they crashed

3519
01:35:03,791 --> 01:35:05,500
and killed themselves.

3520
01:35:05,541 --> 01:35:08,666
When you move that to a larger scale, I

3521
01:35:08,666 --> 01:35:10,041
have concerns on that,

3522
01:35:10,041 --> 01:35:11,708
that don't ever ... Don't

3523
01:35:11,708 --> 01:35:13,833
lower the bar, or there's a paper called

3524
01:35:13,833 --> 01:35:15,875
"Widening Home Plate."

3525
01:35:15,875 --> 01:35:17,208
Don't widen home plate.

3526
01:35:17,208 --> 01:35:21,125
It's that size for a reason, so stop

3527
01:35:21,125 --> 01:35:22,375
widening home plate.

3528
01:35:22,375 --> 01:35:23,583
We have standards for a reason.

3529
01:35:23,583 --> 01:35:24,916
We have academic standards for a reason.

3530
01:35:24,916 --> 01:35:26,000
I think we've lowered them

3531
01:35:26,000 --> 01:35:28,458
a lot in the United States.

3532
01:35:28,458 --> 01:35:29,375
Stop lowering it.

3533
01:35:29,375 --> 01:35:30,500
When I was a kid, if you failed, you

3534
01:35:30,500 --> 01:35:31,541
found out when you didn't

3535
01:35:31,541 --> 01:35:33,125
... I had a first grade.

3536
01:35:33,125 --> 01:35:33,541
Never forget.

3537
01:35:34,208 --> 01:35:35,833
I got our teachers for second grade.

3538
01:35:35,833 --> 01:35:36,291
Who'd you get?

3539
01:35:36,291 --> 01:35:37,833
We got her, first grade teacher.

3540
01:35:37,833 --> 01:35:38,583
That's how I figured out he

3541
01:35:38,583 --> 01:35:39,875
wasn't going to second grade.

3542
01:35:39,875 --> 01:35:41,958
He did first grade twice,

3543
01:35:41,958 --> 01:35:44,000
and it worked out for him.

3544
01:35:44,000 --> 01:35:45,166
Nowadays it's like,

3545
01:35:45,166 --> 01:35:46,125
"Oh, no, keep them going.

3546
01:35:46,958 --> 01:35:46,541
Keep them going.

3547
01:35:46,958 --> 01:35:48,833
No, there's a reason.

3548
01:35:48,833 --> 01:35:49,375
Math is math.

3549
01:35:49,375 --> 01:35:50,833
A lot of skewed incentives in that

3550
01:35:50,833 --> 01:35:52,458
structure right now.

3551
01:35:52,458 --> 01:35:53,958
Yeah.

3552
01:35:53,958 --> 01:35:54,250
Okay.

3553
01:35:54,250 --> 01:35:55,208
Well, Dave, it was an

3554
01:35:55,208 --> 01:35:57,000
absolute pleasure to have you here.

3555
01:35:57,000 --> 01:35:58,416
I think to your point, we are going to

3556
01:35:58,416 --> 01:35:59,500
see a lot of changes in

3557
01:35:59,500 --> 01:36:00,791
this area over the next

3558
01:36:00,791 --> 01:36:01,500
few years.

3559
01:36:02,291 --> 01:36:03,875
Perhaps we'll have you back on and we can

3560
01:36:03,875 --> 01:36:04,666
discuss some of them.

3561
01:36:04,666 --> 01:36:06,208
You know, Ryan, I hope we do,

3562
01:36:06,208 --> 01:36:07,791
and I hope I get invited back.

3563
01:36:07,791 --> 01:36:11,583
I think there's some stuff coming out.

3564
01:36:11,583 --> 01:36:13,291
There's the documentary that I know

3565
01:36:13,291 --> 01:36:14,750
you're a part of that's

3566
01:36:14,750 --> 01:36:16,083
going to be coming out that

3567
01:36:16,083 --> 01:36:19,125
I think is going to be game changing.

3568
01:36:19,125 --> 01:36:21,291
There's been a lot of stuff said, but I

3569
01:36:21,291 --> 01:36:22,083
think this is going to

3570
01:36:22,083 --> 01:36:24,000
have the right amount of

3571
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:24,500
people.

3572
01:36:24,500 --> 01:36:26,541
I'm not saying who it is or when it is,

3573
01:36:26,541 --> 01:36:27,416
but there is something

3574
01:36:27,416 --> 01:36:28,041
being put together that

3575
01:36:28,250 --> 01:36:31,291
I think hopefully it will come out and

3576
01:36:31,291 --> 01:36:33,000
it'll be that one thing

3577
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:34,041
that pushes it over that

3578
01:36:34,041 --> 01:36:35,333
says, "All right, we can't."

3579
01:36:35,333 --> 01:36:37,250
That cat is definitely out of the bag

3580
01:36:37,250 --> 01:36:37,958
because I think there's

3581
01:36:37,958 --> 01:36:40,291
going to be some interesting

3582
01:36:40,291 --> 01:36:42,083
information that comes out in it.

3583
01:36:42,083 --> 01:36:43,250
So it'll be good.

3584
01:36:43,250 --> 01:36:46,791
I think it's an exciting times.

3585
01:36:46,791 --> 01:36:48,041
We don't support the

3586
01:36:48,041 --> 01:36:49,916
X-file themes here at all.

3587
01:36:49,916 --> 01:36:50,916
All right, Dave.

3588
01:36:50,916 --> 01:36:51,166
Thanks so much.

3589
01:36:51,166 --> 01:36:51,583
That's Twilight Zone.

3590
01:36:51,583 --> 01:36:52,250
Yeah, thanks, dude.